I find it odd that you finally admit that there are bad things about AA.

I appreciate the offer. But I really don't have a drinking problem so I'm not so sure I want to invest any more of my time with AA.

If I ever do wish to invest more of my time thinking about AA, it might be to do a full-blown investigative report - the good, the bad and the ugly. I'm not sure you would be open to that.

The reason I posted so much is because I was sharing the information that I stumbled upon as I was researching AA online. Not everyone is interested, I understand. But I thought there wouldn't be much harm in posting the links that I came across.

"I am not an AA advocate but if a meeting were formed I would certainly would to go since there is nothing wrong with helping and supporting people who are trying to stop drinking in a place like China where support is lacking if not nonexistent in most places."

I don't necessarily agree. Because people who have a serious drinking problem also have serious issues they need to deal with. And that's why I think they would be better off going to a trained psychologist/therapist/counselor. In fact, if you read one of the grievances from a former AA member, it's that he was bringing up personal issues at meetings and got some batshit stupid and/or dismissive responses from AA members.

I'm not convinced that anyone at AA is properly trained to help others with serious issues. At best, I think AA is like a cheerleading squad. And at worst, they might be filling people's minds with rubbish or wasting people's time that would be better spent getting real counseling from someone with real qualifications, as opposed to no qualifications or quackery.

Someone mentioned that AA is free as though it's a good thing. Again, I'm not so sure I would jump to that conclusion. Hasn't anyone asked themselves why it's free? The funding has to come from somewhere. Who is funding it and why? Are all organizations that offer free membership benevolent and altruistic? Hasn't anyone ever heard of the expressions "there's no free lunch" and "wolves in sheep's clothing" before? The fact that it's free makes me highly suspicious. I would much rather PAY a licensed therapist to deal with any issues I have. Because there's less likely to be any hidden agendas involved.

And also, "you get what you pay for".

abcd..yea...Denial, fear, resentment..classic

and also Bill.....why do you want me to meet you in private over coffee to discuss the bad things about AA? why not state them here in this thread so that everyone can know what they are directly from a member?

"There is a principle that will keep a man in everlasting ignorance – that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

this is mostly what i seem to see on this forum in recent days. person makes statement and is hit with cynicims and contempt or worse accusations. person concedes a point and they get more of the same.

I know several people that AA has helped. there is no free lunch. members help each other. You get help and then you can help others, no obligation just altruistic. maybe why AA describes itself as a fellowship. kinda sound like self help group to me. nothing wrong with that. AA is not for me, i dealt with my dring problems using other ways. but there are many ways to skin a cat and for many AA is right for them.

abcd, curious that you feel you dont' have a drinking problem but have posted far more about AA than anyone else on this forum... not saying you do, but its a bit strange that you care so much about tearing AA down that you've invested this much into it, then re-buff the original poster when he offers to actually meet with you and talk out his experiences face to face.

As for the general topic... I also find AA somewhat offputting personally (no offense to the OP, its a good org that has helped a lot of people), but first-hand mental/public health work with people in Narcotics Anonymous showed me that for people who have serious problems—not going to Happy Hour too often, but stealing money from their kids' school lunch fund to buy a fix, pimping a loved one out, or sitting in a jail cell ripping the flesh off their own arms from withdrawals—-NA (or AA) is the only thing that does work for them. Whether you think that makes them brain-washed or infantalized is up to you I suppose, but most of them truly need the support of someone who understands where they have been and can offer support in getting their lives back together.

As for the snake-oil comment... fair enough, but for people who feel they have utterly hit rock-bottom from their addiction, the feeling is quite similar to night and day. Maybe try for a bit of empathy for people who've worked hard to turn their lives around and genuinely want to help others in whatever capacity they can (in this case, just offering support, as the OP is not a clinician).

@Dazzer@atwilden Good points. Seems ABCDABCD is just tearing down AA. AA obviously works for some as the OP is proof of this. The OP is just trying to offer his assistant to those who might need some. Kudos to him for doing this.

I didn't say AA is not effective for dealing with alcohol issues.

I was challenging the claim made in the original post: "everyone who follows the 12-step program can have a life beyond their wildest dreams."

Was I over-the-top? Yeah, probably.