my missus does'nt let me do shopping. Just now I paid 3.80 for 2 tomatoes, I know it would be at the most 2 kuai if she bought it. Anyway, 100rmb per week does it - including meat every day. A few times per week we might share the cooking and costs with one or more other families, at our place or at theirs. We get fruit for free (guanxi). We never eat out, in fact we both think local food is disgusting, apart from dai wei. Yunnan food is terrible.

we own a big modern apartment, costs 4000 per month mortgage but we rent out rooms so its down to about 2000.

utilities: in fact she got mad last night at the bills: 200 for the month. She is busy calling the utility suppliers now to complain - i guarantee she will get it discounted to 150 or less per month. mobile phones cost 100 each per month.

socializing is generally free - guanxi. There is always some bar or restaurant owner wanting to invite us, once or twice per week. However I MAY have a beer or even 2 some weeks (20kuai) at a western place. im not too pushed about it.

transport is a big expense: around 10kuai per day, maybe 15 if we go by motorbike. we go by taxi only in emergency.

Luxuries: Im much more wastefull than she - maybe 2 times perweek I eat at Sals or other expensive place (50+ kuai). I feel very bad about that but its hard to resist if Im hungry and happen to be around town. Also coffee: 10 or 11 kuai, maybe 3 or 4 times per week.

we dont travel, no time for it. But i hope we can go to stone forest or something one day.

haircuts, shoes, clothes. Maybe 200/m for her (she gets some free - guanxi again). For me, its even less: cut my own hair, bring clothes from back home. I just buy 7 pairs of socks for a tenner every now and then. Also, I smoke, so thats a tenner a day, too.

we dont have kids but if/when we do, I dont expect much costs really. family contributions i THINK will cover most of the costs. Education will certainly be covered by, you guessed it: guanxi.

I am just wondering how some of you make 20-25k or more per month?? you must have your own businesses or be involved in big international deals, or get paid from back home?

extra costs: today i bought an umbrella. there's always SOMETHING needed. Had to get a plumber in last week: 100 kuai. Id say "extras" average at 100 per week for both of us. Above, someone pointed out about health insurance. I have it, for now, but indeed we'd better think more seriously about this, also for her. Thanks for the reminder.

BTW: about renting costs in holland and germany: 3-400 euros for 100+ square meters in decent cities...are you sure??

OK, but how do you guys think most Chinese manage to eat, go out, have babies, etc.? Sure, there are some economies that come with being a Chinese citizen and a local person, but they shouldn't be exaggerated.

If you are a student living at a campus it all gets simpler and cheaper:) school 15400 a year, room 4500 a year, including internet, phone, going out, clothes, cosmetics, bus card, books and so on I spend about 1500 a month. And I definitely don't feel like I`m living in poverty. But I never go to Western bars or buy imported products, I prefer to enjoy the real thing back home and imo western food in KM doesn't even resemble real stuff.

@Serrure: whereas Chinese food in KM does resemble the real stuff, in great variety. I'm sure most Kunmingers would agree that not all restaurants are either really good or really bad, and that some are indeed one or the other. Prices vary too, and one can eat well cheap. All sort of like...everywhere.

Q. "OK, but how do you guys think most Chinese manage to eat, go out, have babies, etc.? "
A. usually with a lot of parental and extended family support, both phiysical and finanacial. most are eating/living at home with mom and pop.

Wow, Faraday, no offence, but your post really depressed me.. If you are enjoying life though... Good for you! : ) I take it you are saving the majority of your salaries for a better future?

Here's my breakdown:

750 p/m rent. I share with a friend.

55 internet, 150 (ish) other utilities.

100 Mobile phone. Including data plan.

250 Western toiletries and bath products (is this a luxury? :P)

1500-2000 eating out and western bars.

200 groceries to cook at home. Bread, cereals, imported cheese, dairy products etc.

150 taxis

50 bus card.

I don't really shop for clothes here, my mum sends me from back home a few times a year.

I don't travel home as it's kind of expensive, so i must enjoy my western meals here or I won't get them! Haha. I don't drink Chinese beer, or any beer really, I prefer liquor, but I don't drink at home, just two or three times a week in Western bars.

...don't think I've forgotten anything.

Of course there are always issues, plumber needed, laptop repair, phone replacement etc. Therefore I don't save any of my salary each month, but then I don't have a family or kids to support.

@Dazzer: True, though plenty of people here are no longer living with mom & pop. Anyway, my point was just that this shouldn't be exaggerated, and anyway there are many, many people who help to support mom & pop.

@Alien, I have been given chao mian with tomato sauce too many times when I ordered spaghetti. Well, it was pretty good tomato chao mian, but yeah, not going back any time soon.

@Serrure: Yep, I'm selective about where I order spaghetti. But then see what you get ordering chao mien in the US in most Chinese restaurants. So US food is better in the US, Turkish food in Turkey, Chinese food in China. No surprise.

I've tried most of the pasta around town and none of it is that great. Thumbs up for Prague Beichen's mushroom cream pasta though.