English tourists anywhere.........................................DRUNK! hahaha

Actually Tony, it's not a matter of simple perception. I have absolutely no problem with kids being allowed to shit in the street in China. Not my country, not my kids and not my streets and I certainly don't ridicule anyone for their traditional and accepted behaviour. I don't do eyerolling either. But, as for the 2nd hand smoke being only a problem for non smokers ...not true. Its all about lungs, in this case mine. If its in the open street, I couldn't care less if smokers want to clog their lungs with tar, 1st hand, 2nd hand whatever. However if there's a sign in a closed in space that says no smoking ...possibly for the valid reason of damage to air, and it is disregarded then yup...I dont like it. Whatever the country. There's a reason for the sign being there. If however it is in a closed space, I cough, my lungs are affected and then my clothes and hair smell as bad as the smokers'. As for the spitting. Well again, you want to spit in the street, away from my open mouth and nasal passages ...go for it ...no eye rolling from me, I just cover my mouth best I can so I don't catch whatever is in the phlegmy breeze and walk away. But in a bus or a restaurant, theres no escape from the bacteria/virus laden sputum floating around in the atmosphere, or landing on my miàntāng. Ridicule doesn't come into it. Its all about health...mine and others. Education will change it hopefully. Beijing govt tried to stop it prior to the Olympics for a good reason....it ain't a good look for a super civilised country to still be behaving in an uncivilised and unhealthy manner. So, your suggestion that if someone doesn't like somethings about a country they go home, well thats a sad and dare i say, narrow way to look at the foreign travel experience. To only travel and live and learn about places you approve of would be comparable to only eating stuff you knew the taste of, or food which could, if allowed, be improved with some beneficial suggestions. I could spend hours banging on about all the things i like about China, what has kept me coming back, but this forum was not about those. Just saying and I guess this long missive is more than 2 cents, sorry about that and cheers back at you.

But I think you've proven my point. Second hand smoke is only a problem to non-smoker which it seems like you are. I've never heard of a smoker complain about 2nd hand smoke.

Now regarding the health issue, as I originally only wanted to point out different view-points instead of getting really into the arguement lest I get accused of hijacking the thread, I didn't articulate a well formed position. But none-the-less, let me try flesh out my point now.

I'm not necessary arguing that just because it's not my country I shouldn't try to make a difference to mankind but rather that I had no right to berate the locals for adhering to their beliefs. It wasn't long ago that smoking was praised for its many miraculous properties such as aiding digestion after a big meal in many western countries. And as you pointed you, your reaction to to someone smoking to the detriment of your health is a mere, "I don't like it", you didn't act in a rude way as was the point of the articles about ugly tourists.

You also point to the no smoking sign as evidence that the locals know that smoking is forbidden but there is also an element of the Chinese culture where they ignore such signs as mere window dressing to appease foreigners and the higher ups. Signs are ignored all the time, almost as if it's a national past-time. I think I'm rambling now but I don't want to let the last 10 minutes of my life go to waste so I'll leave it up and start over.

———————-Concise version—————————-

As a traveler, until we are accepted as being part of said community, I don't think we should be forcing our values and beliefs upon the locals. And by virtue of being a traveler, we are not in a place long enough to become an accepted member of society.

However, if we do become residents, we should follow the appropriate channels and accepted social norms to bring about change. Merely saying I come from a more advanced society and such actions are looked down upon is not beneficial to the cause.

To come full circle to the start of this topic, to mock the local Chinese for their behavior in China is at best rude and mean spirited, and at worst ignorant and intolerant.

PS, nothing said is directed at you are anybody, merely engaging in a dialogue and providing different view points. =)

Cheers~

'When in Rome ' is almost a cliche. That does not mean it is incorrect.

I was taught, 'when in Rome, do as the good Romans do'.

I agree with @Tonyaod, an outsider bitching will change nothing. If anything it will only build barriers. Imagine a s stranger corrects you on your manner, publicly, how would you feel? I would seethe. Mr Xi JP has already complained about outsiders being critical. For the leaders to be openly critical, they must have very strong feelings. The Chinese will change in their own way, in their own time. In fact they are already changing.

That's an old and well outdated cliche. In Rome I don't necessarily do what many male Romans do....usually grabbing unknown women's backsides in a bus or queue for example, then when sprung give a lecherous grin and move away. In Thailand I don't wai to the various stone deities as I walk along a busy street or when driving my motorbike, in Los Angeles, I don't eat huge calorific restaurant meals because they are placed in front of me. None if these are good for my wellbeing. So what's different about China? I don't like to sit and inhale tar. I'm not telling Chinese not to smoke, just not to smoke in places their own authorities say its not acceptable (or wéifãn guīzé). My Chinese friends agree and are the first to say something... Anyone who thinks its culturally acceptable in short term or long term should go visit an emphysema ward. Enough on the smoking from me. Lets not start on the cultural acceptance of spitting on the floor of restaurants. By the way I like slurping my noodles, and I like shovelling rice into my mouth up close and personal. but dont do it in my country because it would offend.

"When in Rome, do as the Romans" doesn't mean to do everything that they do. It means that in the basics of that culture you should assimilate. For example speaking the language, following their laws and tolerating their culture. It doesn't mean that you have to spit because some do. It doesn't mean that you should let your child shit on the streets.

Did anybody read my second sentence in the my last posting?
Or do people just pile in at their first trigger?

'when in Rome, do as the good Romans do'

What do you mean by "good"?

I am only mildly surprised that writing on a forum re "Chinese Tourists" has degenerated into being seen as "bitching" at locals. As I have said, I say nothing to local people about their customs ..I won't call it culture.....they are theirs to do with as they please....(unless they are specifically demanded to desist by authorities ). If Chinese people choose to tune in to a forum (which is a discussion on a specific topic) about Chinese Tourists....then that is not criticising publicly....it's a specific medium to voice opinions. If however, foreigners in any country, go,out into the street or railway stations and berate nationals for their customs, then hey.....totally not acceptable. Start a discussion about what Chinese think of us as guests in their country, our behaviour and anything else and then let the games begin.

Today I happened to see some footage I took on a recent trip to Dali that brought to mind a difference of the cultural tourism preferences. On Erhai Lake, I have ridden both small & large boats, and I much preferred the small. On the large boat, I hardly felt I was on a lake at all, but more like a hotel! Sure, there was a demo of the Bai Tea thing, but that didn't have to be on a boat. However there are multitudes of Chinese tourists who flock to the big boat tours everyday. I'm not quite sure why, but it seems to be a preferable tourism experience for Chinese. Is it because Chinese like to have comfort for their holiday? Or is it clever marketing that this is the 'quintessential' Erhai experience?
Do Chinese people happily put up with the obligatory jade market stop part-way through their day tour to Stone Forest etc? Is that because they enjoy mixing shopping with sight-seeing?
I'm not sure, but Chinese tourism is different to Western tourism. Is that a surprise? If tourism was the same all round the world, why would anybody bother to travel?