Someone said it somewhere else.
It took over 50 years to change to a non-smoking culture for most countries. Expecting other countries to do it overnight is unrealistic. China will change in its own time, like every other country has.

It is natural, understandable and expected that sensitive issues affect each of us personally and in an emotonal way. However, we all have the right to express (write) our opinions and present facts in this forum as long as we remain calm, respectful, and do not direct an attack at another member. If we do NOT agree or like what another person writes we may (1) Disagree and present facts to the contrary. (2) Offer other solutions or perpectives. (3) Give examples so that others can better understand us.

I have found that if I remain calm, I can agree with at least one point from what every person has written here. I am well aware that China changed its rules in preparation for the Olympics. I also know, like all other countries that host Olympics, they had to build gigantic infrastructure projects that got abandandoned after they were used for 2 months. I also know China had to make changes on piracy laws in order to join the WTO. But this is not the debate at this moment. The fact is they did make these changes, whether by coercion or voluntarily does not really matter. I just look at the facts. They made these changes and created the laws.

Now that a law is in place, we have the right to use it or NOT use it. Once again, we have a choice. We can use the law to our advantage in a passive manner by informing the appropriate officials. If they choose to help us or ignore us, then that is their choice. Someone mentioned that he used this law in a more active manner, by taking the cigarette from an individual. Again, that is their right by choice although this method may have more negative reactions. I will confess that I did this when I first arrived in China 8 years ago because I was frustrated because there was sign that said No Smoking on the bus. However, now I prefer to use another method that I feel produces more positive results. This is why I choose to file a report as is my right to do so. What happens to the bus driver is NOT my concern. I don't feel guilty that he got punished. He knew the rules and he made a choice to smoke. Now he must suffer the consequences.

The point is we all have the right to do what we feel necessary at a given point in time. However, back to this forum and sensitive issues. We do NOT have the right to attack other members for their beliefs or direct profanities at one another. The moderators of this post also agree with this notion as they have clearly written these rules above. To conceal the F word with 3 other characters is still profanity and we should find other mature ways to express ourselves.

To command and order others to leave this forum, to to tell others to leave this country is NOT appropriate. There is only one person we do have control over and that is ourselves. We can choose to read or NOT read. We can choose to reply (respectfully) or Not reply. I enjoy reading and posting on this forum and I certainly do NOT want to lose this priveledge so I try to behave in a mature manner. I hope others can control themselves and be more respectful and show their maturity and intellect by presenting more interesting replies rather then use profanity and attack other members. Thank you.

HFCAMPO, while no one should tell you to leave the country, or the forum, not all opinions are deserving of respect. And not all opinions are just opinions-you took an action. A totally irresponsible action.

Your justifications for it don't have a leg to stand on. Your current understandings of law, customs, and social responsibility are seriously simplistic and unsophisticated.

If you know the laws so well, then you could've simply asked the driver not to smoke, quoted the statutes, and even threatened to report him, WITHOUT ACTUALLY REPORTING HIM. That would've gotten the desired effect, without destroying his wages and potentially causing harm to someone's family.

Everyone makes bad calls, I hope you can someday grasp that's exactly what this was.

The Prague Cafe may have no smoking signs posted, but the two times I went there people were smoking.

Thanks
www.iwantandneedsex.com

Aaronb - Since you took the initiative to direct your comments to me although I was NOT writing to you I will reciprocate in kind. First of all, ALL opinions should be RESPECTED whether you agree with those opinions or not. Most conflicts begin because people do NOT respect each others opinions.

Before you accuse someone of irresponsible actions you should first ask questions rather then make judgements.

Like the old saying goes, when you ASSume, you make . . . Perhaps you should have simply asked me - Did you ask or tell the driver to please stop smoking? I would have gladly given you the reply (YES) and you could have avoided embarrassing yourself in this public forum.

Slice of Heaven on Hong Shan Dong Lu does not allow its customers to smoke in the cafe, nor does Mazagran on Wen Lin Jie or any of the Wicker Baskets' stores.

@HFCAMPO Well I certainly enjoy embarrassing myself in public.
Here's more. Asking someone to stop is not the same as threatening to report them and quoting the punishments, taking out your phone, dialing the number in front of the driver, etc. Even if all of this failed, it is still not justification enough for the scale of the vengeance that you deployed.

And no, not all opinions have to be respected. That would lead to absurd consequences. The right to EXPRESS all opinions, MIGHT, ARGUABLY, need to be respected, but that is not the same thing at all. And if it is to be respected, the writer/speaker needs to accept the consequences of his words. You agree with me, even though you seem unaware of it, as you have already demonstrated in this thread.

So does that mean that we have to wait for something to actually happen? Let's say that HFCAMPO told him 'nicely'. "Excuse sir, you know you can't smoke on the bus" and the man says, "oh, sorry". After HFCAMPO sits down at the back of the bus or the second level, he decides to secretly light up. Upon picking up another cigarette for his shirt pocket to light up it accidentally falls on the floor and as he goes to pick it up while driving mind you he is distracted and causes an accident. What then? Sorry won't mean a damn thing when the passengers are hurt. If you choose to be a bus driver, you MUST follow basic rules for the safety of the passengers AND your job and family. The same goes for driving while driving. Being Chinese or a foreigner has NOTHING to do with it.

Aaron - Well I certainly enjoy embarrassing myself in public - Since you admit to enjoy this - I will accomodate you further and explain all in detail. Since you again ASSume and judge rather then asking questions.

My chinese wife asked him to stop smoking and he ignored her and never even replied. This really angers me when someone disrespects my wife in spite of her being in the RIGHT. Then she stood up and told him to stop because there is no smoking on the buses. Again, no reply.

Threatening to report them and quoting the punishments, taking out your phone, dialing the number in front of the driver, etc. NO, I did not do all the things you describe here as I did not want to make a scene at the start of a 4 hour trip. The questions is, do I have to go to this extent? The answer is clearly NO.

The scale of the vengeance that you deployed. Well, I made a report to the appropriate officials and that is all I did. I do NOT work for the Traffic Management Bureau. I have NO authority over the driver. I do NOT have the power to fine or suspend anyone. I am just a passenger who made a report. What the Traffic Bureau does is up to them. If they slap him on the wrist, fine him, or execute him, that is up to them. It has nothing to do with me.

In your first post, you accused me of NOT telling him anything. Now you accuse me of NOT telling him enough. I think any REASONABLE person would clearly agree that I acted appropriately - NOT like a thug who forced his will upon another human being and not like a coward who gave him no opportunity to change his behavior.

It is obvious this guy does NOT respect women (My wife) and based on his other multiple violations he does NOT respect anyone else.

ED

SPAM SPAM SPAM

@lovelopez August 7 above.

SPAM IS IN THE POSTING THAT OTHERWISE LOOKS OK