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the second thing-language issue

culture (51 posts) • 0

the second thing that is difficult for me living in Yunnan is the language barrier, I am not talking about mandarin Chinese which I am fluent with, but the local dialect being spoken everywhere you go, I have no problem when people speak the dialect with their own group or in private, I am talking about the service sector, such as schools, stores, buses, airports and such, even when I insisted they speak Mandarin to me, many still wouldn't, as foreigners we are expected to learn Chinese but not all the dialects in China. I can understand that some older folks just can not speak it, but I do expect young educated locals especially when they are serving foreigners or chinese from out of town to speak Mandarin Chinese,, so the most ridiculous thing I had to say to people on a daily basis is "sorry I am not Chinese, can you please speak Chinese to me? " it is especially bothersome in case of an emergency, that even if you mastered Chinese you can be left out in many situations when they speak something you have no idea of, in my opinion they should use Mandarin whenever possible, and after knowing the person you are talking to speak your dialect you can switch to it if you like but not the vice versa, does it bother others I wonder?

Silvio DaVinci (282 posts) • 0

* Please note: this is advice in dealing with dialects if you're proficient with the official spoken language. This is not advice about Chinese language as I don't speak it yet.

A small trick to quickly adjust is: memorize the letters and tones they speak differently. (find out with simple words you recognize instantly)
Example: number 8 is pronounced [ba] in Mandarin.
In Kunming it is [bu] with a flat/deaf u (thus not like bu in the meaning of "not").
It works for me when I have to listen to dialects in various European countries. I assume it works for Chinese too (with the exception of typical expressions as they have a lot of these which don't exist in Mandarin).

Hope this helps :)

yankee00 (1632 posts) • 0

Sad thing is that more and more dialects and minority culture are being forgotten in newer generations.

Apparently, if you had chosen to live in the north of China instead, dialects there would have been closer to putonghua

The Dudeson's (1106 posts) • 0

I know how you feel about this issue but I don't quite agree. For sure in cases of emergency it is a barrier but mostly in the most dangerous emergencies (sickness, hospitals...etc) I always realized that if someone gives you the good old yunnan or Kunming hua, greeted with a raised eyebrow, they switch to mandaring or close to it.

Actually I think a whole lot of people can't really speak mandarin, especially in the service sector since they are low salary jobs and thus filled by a lot of coutryside folks and people of Chinese schools from the outskirts were teachers often can't speak standard mandarin.

Even more, I had a few kids in my classes, that never learned standard mandarin, because they mostly grow up with their Baomu's and Nannies and they also come often from villages and such, where standard mandarin is not that 'standard'.

But I kinda love that language barrier stuff (if not in danger) it gives e the giggles all the time. I have this scooter parking guy, whenever he talks to me I have literally no f***ing idea about he word he just said, probably 30 % becasue he constantly has a tobacco pipe in his face and the other 70% he just doesn;t speak putonghua.
The funniest thing is, his wife wants to help translate but her mandaring is as s**t as his. It's hilarious, I really enjoy it, especially that we get along great, not knowing what the other said. lol

And everytime I leave I have to laugh because we both speak chinese and are not able to communicate, and I just talk nonstop when I get there and nod with the hope that he at least gets me.

And I agree with yankee, it's good to have those dialects around, gives them a special cultural note.

Plus it's not a chinese thing, I went to France a few times and 80% of all french guys speak alright English but they expect you to learn and speak french even if you are only there for one week vacation. One Frencho even told me that because their language is so beautiful.....The french are funny

yankee00 (1632 posts) • 0

@Dudeson's
true. And it's not just a foreign tourist thing. Someone who would have learned Parisian French and wanted others to speak French would have a hard time understanding northern or southern French, and they may sound like dialects to them (even some Parisians have a hard time understanding). Québécois or African French accents would sound like totally different languages. Plus they all add their own local patois when communicating.

GoK Moderator (5096 posts) • 0

One thing I have seen police in Shanghai do with out of towners. They write things down. The written language is shared. Literacy rates in China are high, even among farmers.
Of course this only works if you can write in Chinese and read Chinese handwritten by the other guy.

Alien (3819 posts) • 0

The dialects in Yunnan are difficult for me too, but I do not notice people refusing to speak standard Chinese when I politely point out that I can't understand dialect, unless they simply haven't learned standard Mandarin pronunciation, so the issue of what they 'should' do does not come up. And it is not simply a problem in China - people speak dialects all over the world. As for leaving people out of communication, this is often regularly done by the foreigners in Kunming whose Chinese is sufficient but whose mutual conversations in English are often carried on in many varieties of slang, which few local Chinese may be able to follow.

GoK Moderator (5096 posts) • 0

For the under 30s speaking putonghua should be less of an issue. For speaking with a small number of locals over 50, it may be a real problem.
My MIL is 70+ and from a small town on the border with Guizhou. The family is educated and can speak Putonghua, as well as local dialects. To give you a clue to family background, they are still using the lunar calendar.

Remember, that a lot of dialects are poorly pronounced mandarin. Not all are really dialects.

culture (51 posts) • 0

based on Chinese official report there are 40 some percent or about half of the population that can not communicate in Mandarin Chinese effectively. I do support the preservation of dialects which preserves culture and history, but if by doing so hinders people from learning or being able to speak the language of the land, thus making their life and lives of others difficult, is really worth it? the world is now learning Chinese, shouldn't everyone here learn it first? just my opinion...

GoK Moderator (5096 posts) • 0

The magic term is 'communicate effectively'.

What does communicate effectively mean?
I am guessing that this might mean that they would be unable to grasp all of the small print in a service contract, or maybe be unable to write an essay to high school standards. And perhaps not be able to hold their own in a dispute with a native speaker.

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