Also it allows other expats to act like trolls on said internet forums,derailing potentially helpful threads by being inflammatory for no apparent other reason than their own personal amusement. Magnifico,if you can't stay on topic,offer anything useful or want to question everyone else's choices,why post anything? You are clearly trolling.

How am I derailing the thread? I'm not on topic?

Liumingke1234, nothing wrong with not wanting to get ripped off. But it works both ways. If you try to haggle them down too much, then they get ripped off. And you make a lot more than they do.

@blobbles

I agree 100% with your last post.

alright, alright. i'm done. i'll stop posting.

everyone happy now?

@Magnifico I highly doubt they would sell anything to you at a price less than what they paid for.

Of course they won't go below cost price. But still, if you take them down to where they're barely making any profit, then they get cheated.

And the other point was that maybe they can't compete with Taobao, but it can be argued that large stores like Wal-Mart in the US have harmed the economy, so it may be better to support Ma & Pa shops even if you need to pay a little more.

I apologize for making my points in the previous post sarcastically.

i am ashamed to admit i shop at Walmart here. It is not usually a price thing but i can find things that i cannot always find easily any where else. My experience with most places in china is the vendor prices are so much less than i pay in usa i will bargain sometimes, but often not aggresively. I never shop Walmart in USA because as Magnifico says Walmart has destroyed the economy in the USA. There is an interesting article on Web i think titled 50 reasons Walmart has destroyed US economy. Sorry i did get off the point somewhat.

@tall
Walmart (recently M&A'd Hao YouDuo) is somewhat middle class-ish for China (except the converted HYDs). Nevertheless - they're obliterating the neighborhood mom & pop groceries also - EXCEPT in the agro biz - fresh meat (no cold chain here, nope) & veges are still better at the farmer's markets, as are huge sacks of rice, etc. Just shop EARLY.

As for taobao blasting the local economy - supply and demand. When it hurts enough - they'll bargain with we ludicrously wealthy expats (sarcasm). FYI - the domestics also won't negotiate with out of town Chinese (my significant other's experience).

As for Magnifico's comments - @tall noted they'll bargain with locals which has also been my experience, but NOT with non-yunnan speakers - so again, to re-iterate - screw 'em.

If all the expats in Kunming buy from taobao - it won't change the local economy worth a ding (except for maybe Salvadors etc) - so don't worry about feeling guilty cuz you took your biz elsewhere. It's rather miniscule.

I have successfully bargained at my local market (even though prices are already rock-bottom there) and buying all kinds of stuff that I find too expensive. Usually I get up to 30-40% off, especially in places where I shop often.

My Chinese is not very good but locals seem to make no problem of giving me a discount or giving me something on top.

My method with places I regularly frequent is not making a fuss about the price the first time. Smile, always smile and have a short conversation. Give them some face, appreciate the wares. Then the next time, as they recognise your face, ask politely if they can drop it a bit. But don't argue about one or two kuai, that's not worth it. Just do it on the total price after you bought all of your stuff at the same veggie stand, for example.

With other places I just ask whether it can be any cheaper. If they say no, I move on. If they say yes I try to achieve 70% of the original.

Never forget to smile. Always smile, throughout the entire process. Treat it like a game. And if you think the price is fair, simply pay it. You don't have to bargain just because.

i speak fluent chinese and i can understand the kunming/sichuan/cantonese/guangxi dialect. i can tell you, expat or tourist alway pay crazy price. last month, i was in Xi An, i was watching in amusement, two American tourist bargaining with a vendor over a pack of very attractive coaster. it started with rmb 120, and the two amercian was 'smart' enough to chop it down to 60, in the end the two american and the vendor settled it for 75. now, the same pack of coaster was passed for 12 rmb to a couple of local chinese tourist only some 8 minutes earlier. interesting?
the same in yunnan. :-)))))), in lijiang, a same bottle of local beer would change hand for 4 rmb for the local, and 29 for non-local chinese tourist. even chinese had to pay 'crazy price', you see. :-)))))