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Why I Now Hate B&Q and Toto

Chingis (242 posts) • 0

Sincerest apologies for my libelous besmirchment of your plumbing equipment bucko. That is indeed a fine looking pump, and at only 5700 Roubles it is a bargain at twice the price!
And sorry to hear about your experience with CRE Mr Coward. I do recall now that when I moved from KM the workers came around with bags, and after we had packed all that stuff up we went with the guys in the van to their depot and then some different guys packaged up the fragile stuff and things that needed boxing.

Anonymous Coward (329 posts) • 0

I also own a Wilo PW 175-EA. I think I paid about 700-800rmb for it. It's a good pump, but it might be overkill for what you need. For example, I don't think you will need a self priming pump unless there is a lot of air in your pipes. I think self priming pumps are usually used on wells (which is what I use mine for). There are a lot of different pumps out there, so make sure you do a little research and find out which one best suits your needs.

ludwig (104 posts) • 0

"The pump, which is about the size of a dead hedgehog, is basically silent and once installed requires no maintenance."

— until it dies.

Ours blew up just a few days ago, noxious fumes coming from it. Disconnecting the electricity stopped worse things happening, but it now is as useful as a dead hedgehog. Nothing lasts very long here.

lummerlaoshi (130 posts) • 0

Epilogue:

I contacted the Toto guy again and he told me to go back to B&Q, refund the drain and buy another one. I didn't trust him so I called B&Q and asked if I could refund. The salesperson said sure. I then asked if they had other drains. Yes again. I then asked if they had drains that I could actually take with me. No. So I would have to order yet another drain and wait 40 days in order to be in the same situation again? Yes. I contact the Toto guy who I have no faith in now and he tells me to go to another place like Deyisheng to buy the drain (like a Toto store). Will they have it? Possibly.

My wife overheard this continual rubbish and eventually got involved. She told the Toto guy that he was going to send us another drain by the end of that day or she would complain to the complaints line, get in contact with his manager, and then contact the news to do a story on how shoddy the business practices had been to this point. She then called B&Q, told them they had to send us the refund by this day or should we called the complaint line. The sales person said "Go ahead. They don't care either. No one cares (rough translation)." So she called the complaints line and complained. A few hours later, she not only got the salesperson to send another drain, she got him to buy the drain and refund us the difference along with a written note guaranteeing that he would fix the drain if it broke.

The bottom line is that you need to threaten a person's livelihood here or else they will drag their feet. I still reiterate to stay away from B&Q and Toto, but at least the complaint line actually had some effect. I too have forwarded my complaints to the B&Q in the UK, but no response as of yet.

@atomic: I've been working with one person who works with many of the cafes on Wen Lin Jie. He's quite reliable and I really trust him based on the work he has done. PM me if anyone needs a foreman/installation expert.

@laotou: I agree with you. I should have just refunded everything immediately and not dealt with all the hassle. However, you sometimes just want to get things done and I wasn't sure if it would be a even bigger hassle to stop and start again. I thought of taobao before, but on my own, it seemed easier to do things in person. For future jobs, it definitely is something I want to do.

@Dazzer: We went with the most expensive paint at B&Q (Master's?) and it was great. After about 4 days, there was no smell or fumes.

@Bucko: Wow! I just don't have the time/energy/experience/knowledge to pull off what you are doing.

@Anonymous Coward: I've moved a few times in China, but I don't have a specific moving company to offer. However, be careful of two things - 1. If the company is charging by weight, do not trust their scales. Weigh everything before and let them know. We used two moving companies in Shanghai that rig the scales so that they increase in weight when you put your boxes to weigh, but seem quite normal if you step on the scales. We caught the scam and the moving people said it was standard practice to cheat. 2. Be very organized with what is in every box and how many boxes you have. A friend of mine lost a box of valuable items, but didn't notice until he had signed off on the moving receipt. Keep an inventory of every box and check it before signing off.

On a separate note, I have just had a water pressure pump installed. It's outside of the wall, right after the water meter, and it cost about 400rmb. It needs to be plugged in and you need to turn it on/leave it on when you need the pressure. Seems to work pretty well, but I don't have the specs on it. Can send more details in the future if need be.

Thanks for all the feedback and advice.

laotou (1714 posts) • 0

@lummer
If your wife can do the complaint line - she can definitely do the tabobao thing. Taobao isn't the problem - finding reliable skilled craftspeople (usually men in China, for some reason) is the key issue and that can only be done by word of mouth...and get at least a COUPLE of references.

MOVING
My moving to Kunming experience was a precursor (fenghsui) to the culture here. Several things were stolen by the moving company or their agents - a combo printer-fax-scanner. Electronics (ipod & sony digital camera). A computer monitor (NEC - VERY expensive)...and who knows what else was in that bag. The moving company refused to give me THEIR inventory upon arrival - so my opinion is most if not all moving companies in KM - regardless of other city affiliations - are thieves of opportunity - they should be executed or at least maimed (Shariah law - cut off their hands). Most of my well packed fragiles - wine glasses, sculptures, etc - smashed. I attribute this to my admin who sourced the moving company. Since I was leaving - I suspect she got a kickback from the company she used - trying to weasel out some extra cash from the foreigner...but no proof - aside from the experience from hell. The info below should help remove a considerable amount of fraud from the process. This is how the locals do it.

1. PACKING. I've found the BEST way to move economically is pack up all your stuff by yourself (no chinese moving company will do this - that I know of). INVENTORY AND LABEL EVERYTHING. You'll need to use this checklist a couple of times. You can get some moving companies to build special wooden crates for your heavy appliances (that way it's more difficult to flip it upside down - if they can F@@K it up - they will). You MUST watch the loading and unloading - if possible. BUY INSURANCE if possible. BUBBLE WRAP EVERYTHING that's fragile (including the TV - despite the impressive wooden box - the movers still managed to damage the TV screen - BIG tv...

2. CHINA RAIL - LONG HAUL. You're gonna move EVERYTHING by rail. Make an appointment with the train station - that handles movement of household goods in bulk. They'll assign a closed rail car (flat bed container shipping). It's more difficult to mess with your stuff and chuck it around when it's in a sealed cargo container.

3. LOADING AKA GETTING YOUR STUFF INTO THE SHIPPING CONTAINER. The rail company MAY be able to refer a reputable moving company experienced with shipping products into rail containers. BEWARE THE GORILLAS. This is unskilled labor. You MUST PERSONALLY supervise loading and unloading. Make an appointment with the train station first - and this ain't the passenger station - get a NAME and CONTACT POINT if possible. Chinese are notorious for NOT giving their names - that can be a bad sign (like doctors refusing to give you their name after prescribing meds or treatments - I've seen this kind of fraud in KM - but that's another flame). Hire the local moving company to move all your stuff to the train station from your apartment. Count EVERYTHING. LABEL EVERYTHING. SEAL EVERYTHING. Like the USA - where there's opportunity - there's a thief and long haul moving companies use contractors - most of whom will steal given the opportunity (probably an unfair stereotype - but sounds about right). I think your movers actually have to load the shipment into a container for shipping - but can't remember this process - check with China Rail Cargo dept. TRAVEL WITH THE MOVERS TO THE RAIL DEPOT. NEVER let your stuff out of your sight. Watch them move your stuff into the container. Have a backup moving company on hand. Once your stuff in in their truck(s) - you may be subjected to extortion if they feel they can't steal stuff from you - they'll try to up the price, charge extra for mileage, etc - although pay an extra CNY 10-50 per floor is a legitimate charge - which they should have negotiated up front when they ask for your address.

4. UNLOADING. Check the destination and delivery time with the rail - this requires some scheduling on your part so you can arrive before (hopefully) your stuff. Find out the daily storage fees in case you're late. Don't let your stuff idle too long. THe longer your stuff isn't in your hands, the higher the probability of a burglary - although this should be somewhat minimized by using the state owned rail company.

5. TRANSPORTATION TO YOUR NEW DIGS. The train station MAY refer local movers. Try to NOT use the dregs milling around outside (although they may be contractors to legitimate firms). It's almost impossible to move a shipping container around the city - so you'll probably have to unload the shipping container and move everything to a flatbed truck or trucks. Most moving companies will ask you how much stuff you have - so telling them the size of the shipping container is helpful.

6. INVENTORY. EVERY time your stuff changes locations - do an inventory. It's painful and incredibly irritating to the gorillas - but it's your stuff. Be an a@@h@le and count EVERYTHING. CHECK IT OFF on your inventory list.

7. YOUR NEW APT. Hopefully this is a semi-permanent move if you're moving a household like I was. Again - reverse process of the LOADING. INVENTORY EVERYTHING. Check every box for damage. The moving company won't pay - but the insurance company (assuming you can get moving insurance) WILL PAY and they can harrass the moving company for re-imbursement. Insurance companies (assuming you get paid for loss) are much more evil and adept at extracting blood than we little people.

Hope this helps and trust you won't be virtually raped and sodomized with this experience. Slowly burned to death in oil is too fast a death for my moving company. Utterly shameless.

GoK Moderator (5096 posts) • 0

Ref Moving.

We used Asian Express (AE) and have never lost a thing. They also do the packing for a fee. All items are insured for loss. Only items that they pack are insured for damage, which seems fair. High value items must be declared before hand.

We have used them twice. We never lost anything with AE. The mislaid a part of a table, and found it and delivered it 2 days later.

The same guy in charge of packing and pick up is there for delivery and unpacking.

In the past we used a small mover, once. A box went missing, a mirror was smashed. Nobody was interested in taking responsibility. I think the problem with the small companies is that your stuff passes through so many sets of hands that it is impossible to control.

I have no connection with AE other than being a very satisfied customer.

laotou (1714 posts) • 0

@tiger
Thanks for the referral. I'll give them a whirl for my next intercity move.

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