saynay - not taken as flame - nicely written.<br>

FOr the record, I'm an abrasive butthead - so apologies in advance to all for any and all offensive things.<br>

INTROSPECTION
Yes - agree - but shouldn't we ALL do a little introspection - I know the gokm blogs are tight - and I'm also guilty of only presenting biased opinions - for which I am promptly fragged.<br>

So - let's introspect - since we went way back to the Cultural Revolution - I'll take some license and go back a little further. Firstly - I actually agree with some of philosophies from the Cultural Revolution. I believe that we city dwellers should visit the rural areas somewhat regularly to appreciate the good life we have in the cities with our nice paying jobs, fancy apartments, cars, restaurants, etc and to truly appreciate and perhaps even respect the people who work to put that food in our mouths.<br>

Now for some introspection - to be fair - let's look at the occupation of China in it's past - starting with - say...oh...the Opium Trade period. Why did foreign governments (G8) engage in the Opium Trade in China - because of a trade imbalance. They were buying too much chinese stuff and chinese just weren't reciprocating - so some brilliant foreigner came up with the opium trade which either caught on like wildfire or was part of a concentrated conspiracy. And it was so successful that Chinese nationals tried to organize and rise up against the accursed drug dealers.<br>

They lost - the penalty - Macau ceded to the Portuguese, Hong Kong to the British, to name a few. Also included was the humiliating cash penalties which essentially bankrupted China, setting the stage for the eventual invasion of China by Japan - which I might add was an incredibly silly idea. Damage - destruction of one of the wonders of the world mostly by the british - YuanMing Yuan remains in its destroyed state today as a reminder to all Chinese to remember the past - and reflect or INTROSPECT on it's significance.<br>

The USA - somewhat to its credit and embarrassed by the whole sordid affair - used the blood drug money to build Tsinghua (somebody correct me if I'm wrong).<br>

So - European, Japanese, and American (to include Canada) all participated in the Opium drug trade because of a trade imbalance - pointing fingers at China as the culprit. Does this sound familiar?<br>

Canada - the great advocate of human rights - friend of the Dalai Lama and the more recent Nobel Prize recipient - they grant asylum to US conscientious objectors and to corrupt chinese government officials to embezzled millions to hundreds of millions of dollars stolen from government coffers. Does anyone have any doubt as to why Canada's flagship international company telecom supplier Nortel collapsed?<br>

I'm not qualified to criticize any of China's leaders, either past or present, but they have my utmost respect and admiration. They have a burden of responsibility that is staggering. The Euro-Japan-Americas and their respective medias are quite liberal with their criticisms but they also have zero responsibility for the welfare of China's population.<br>

My issue aside from the fact that those same governments have not changed cultures in 200 years - is that the west constantly judges china by western standards and their own experiences in their own isolated environments. And of course they all have their own selfish interests as motivations. China underwent tremendous suffering simply because nobody wanted to be her friend. China repaid it's WW2 debt in full - the USA forgave everyone's war debt - ally and enemy alike (aka Japan) - but not China.<br>

China repaid it's war debt to the former Soviet Union in cash and grain - starving it's own people to death - and I'll just make an allusion to the Korean War.<br>

So yeah...I introspect a lot - but can westerners also face the truth - it's harsh and it's not nice. I get flamed sometimes because I openly admit I'll pass these histories along to my children - not so they'll hate westerners or grow up being haters - but more so they understand the difference between government and people - and how governments influence people - should they ever move into careers where these are influencing factors in their lives.<br>

So, back to Kenzo - I'm truly sorry you are frustrated - perhaps if someone told you that although China has the appearance of a USA or Japan - beneath the surface - it's still an up and coming third world country in many areas (except traditional chinese medicine - they're tops in that field - but you still gotta be the conspicuous consumer). Education is unfortunately one of those areas. Students are mostly taught rote memorization. Teachers promulgate that culture as deviations must be approved and few want to jeopardize their careers by being innovative and advanced.

I truly hope that within my lifetime - Chinese Universities and Educational Systems can rise to the top or World Class institutions - that the first choice of students wishing to study abroad will be here.

So, Kenzo - I urge you to at least push your constructive criticisms to your school's Foreign Affairs Office or the Chinese Language Dept Dean. Give them the opportunity to learn from their mistakes - albeit at your expense. Whether or not they take action (most probably not) is questionable - but at least you did the right thing. <br>

I congratulate you on taking action and coming here to study the language and encourage you to continue your studies at an institution more suited to your style of learning - and hope you benefit from the rich experience and culture that China has to offer - while trying to overlook the fact that 75% of the people and places are focused on separating you from your wallet and other equally irritating and frustrating contemporary cultural irritants.

Laotou: 'I'm not qualified to criticize......' Thankfully my ancestors didn't take this stance and because of this, on the whole, I'm better off because they were not so inhibited. No one is perfect.

I'm not qualified to criticize the big shots, because I don't have the responsibilities of China's leaders. I only see the what's in front of and around me. So I try to do my part to help create a sustainable harmonious society - wherever or whatever country I'm in - within the political, cultural, and environmental etc structures currently in place.

Instead of criticizing things that I cannot change - I choose to apply myself to things I actually can influence or change. Put my money where my mouth is. Some countries - this is impossible - but China and the USA provide sufficient freedoms and latitude for a wide range of socially beneficial, economically feasible, profitable, and sustainable projects, with long-term life-cycles.

Laotou:

A person is incensed with what is perceived as poor and inexcusable service. He's then bombarded with excuse after feeble excuse and drenched with paragraphs of tired rhetoric designed to obscure the original complaint and make the complainant themselves feel guilty.

Thus the perpetrators feel vindicated and left to pocket undeserved profits and free to act in the same way again. Bad for the customer, bad for the reputation of the institute and ultimately bad for Kunming.

You began with "I agree with everything you said....." What on earth was the history lesson for? Quit the psycho babble and let progress commence!

No one other than YOU mentioned leaders or government and it's plain wrong and misleading to turn the argument in that direction.

nnoble...okokok. The "history lesson" with references to government and leaders was a sort of big picture view. Almost everything we do is in some way related to the government. Kunming gets a deservedly bad rap for lots of things, including archaic educational processes - but if we just complain within our own forums - nothing will happen.<br>

If Kenzo is ticked off enough, then I hope he/she will feedback to the school. Maybe nothing will happen - then again - as negatives on the expat boards get around - and that may affect their enrollment revenues and prestige - so maybe hopefully, Kenzo's feedback just might start a serious "introspective" on their program leading to changes for the better.<br>

FYI - Tsinghua recently totally overhauled their MBA program to be more in alignment with some of the changes happening in the MBA USA land - but that's Tsinghua.

I find the politics on gokunming to be a turnoff.

I find the nationalism, (and really the whole philosophy) expressed here by Laotou to be revolting. But since it seems that many of the regulars also often think in terms of the nation-state narrative, and often throw around derogatory statements about "China" as well-I'm not surprised by it.

The complaints made about a university's language program seemed to be made in good faith, as a warning to others, and an expression of anger. It seems to me that addressing those points, or sharing one's own experience with that school would be the sufficient way to reply.

Some people seem to think their politics are so in touch with reality that they are just universally relevant as a "background" to every conversation.

J9 et al
Sorry about dragging politics into a simple question - but it's actually part of the solution or problem - IF we were thinking about maybe trying to solve a chronic systemic problem. Above EVERY state or national institutional president sits a party secretary. If we were looking for a potentially viable solution to Kenzo's complaint, as opposed to just blowing off steam - we'd start at the head - which will be the party secretary or thereabouts. <br>
If Kenzo and other's complaints about the methodology used to teach Chinese to foreigners were sent to just anyone - it would be ignored and buried. Teacher's jobs are usually lifelong jobs - so generally speaking, they're extremely cautious (reluctant) about trying to implement new things which might jeopardize their livelihoods. It's easier to stick to the old ways than to make mistakes while trying to move forwards. This is also one of China's pervasive cultures that has its benefits but can also severely retard progress.<br>
If Kenzo and other forum members would take the time to formally submit their complaint along with suggestions for improvements in key areas, perhaps the school would consider a program change, so other lemmings wouldn't have to follow in Kenzo's footsteps.<br>
For the record - I asked my university employer about taking language classes - the univ head recommended I do the one-to-one language exchange thing instead - to really accelerate my communication skills. Initially I thought he was just brushing me off courteously, but later realized he was actually giving sound albeit strange advice.

I have to say that I see the problem as much simpler than any political historical thing. I think it is more about the business culture in the particular institution, and aspects of Chinese business culture.

Universities are not businesses. The quality of management in the public sector is often lower. Hierarchical systems do suffer from poor management, group think and resistance to change. Add 'face' to the equation and the office politics get worse. It was also pointed out that nepotism is an issue.
The systems may be poor, but many staff will criticise it. It would not be in their best interest to criticise a system that they have no power to change.
The university I worked at before, in a tier 3 city, was very political. There were things that just would not happen. Anything that would in any way change any admin procedure would never happen. Most Directors had come from the admin stream. Admin held the power. Teaching was secondary. In other universities the power base will be somewhere else. I just learned the system there and worked it as best as I could.

A third element also touched up is expectations. In the west we expect certain levels of service and accountability as a given. Here in China expectations are rising, but they are not yet at US levels.

And again, as said above, TIC.

My two cents.