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Suggestions to reduce friction between Public Security and Immigrant Population

laotou (1714 posts) • 0

Any suggestions on how to reduce friction? For street vendors and scooters is warning notices with a grace period to comply with local laws and regulations. On the other side - I've noticed the migrant or poorer populations are extremely argumentative with no respect for authority as evidenced in the recent mini-riot. This kind of mindset is not a simple fix.

tanfei (25 posts) • 0

It's good to see posts like this.

I don't really have any answers, but this is the problem as I see it: there isn't really any hard-and-fast enforcement on nearly any "petty" crime. If you embezzle money or sell drugs, you may face some very severe consequences. If you sell fried potatoes on a piece of street that is off-limits, well, you never know where you stand. Some police will ticket you, but some will buy from you. You aren't sending a clear message at all.

It seems to me that the administration of the chengguan are making a typical but fatal "parenting" mistake. The idea is: make reasonable rules with reasonable punishments, and then enforce them without exception. Some parents never make rules. Then how will your child know what is acceptable and what not? Some make rules that are too strict and then feel bad about levying punishments. Then your rules mean nothing. Some make reasonable rules but either don't dictate punishments early on. Sometimes the punishment is too light and sometimes to harsh, leading to the child losing respect for you. (Not saying citizens are the children of the government - just talking about relations between authority figures and those who are expected to follow their rules.)

To me it seems that this kind of thing is happening. Sometimes the police will buy the fried potatoes, blurring the lines for the seller. The next policeman who walks up may overturn the cart, knowing that he'll be protected by the higher-ups.

I think that reasonable lawmaking supported by accountable enforcement (of the actions of both parties) would go a long way.

I'm gonna hold my breath until the government says I can have my fried potatoes!

piers (144 posts) • 0

I think there might be an issue with different branches of law enforcement and government having different remits and priorities.

The average policeman doesn't really care that much about illegal street vendors. His main job, outside of reading the newspaper and smoking Double Happiness, is to catch the bad guys.

Traffic police buy fancy sunglasses, keep their gloves whiter than white and enforce a One Scooter, 2 People Forbidden Policy.

The beloved Chengguan confiscate fried potatoes, outdoor seating and the like.

The list goes on.....

Until all branches work together, recognizing an infringement and reporting it to the relevant department involved whilst staying on scene to supervise until help arrives, the general populace must find it hard to place their trust in their gov't services and law enforcement.

It seems faintly ridiculous that if, after a traffic accident, the two (or more) protagonists end up in a physical confrontation, the traffic police stand idly by, completing their traffic report, utterly disinterested in any violence that falls outside their traffic remit.

Years ago I had a car crash in central London and as it happened the first police on the scene was a fully-armed, body armoured SWAT team who were two cars back. They sorted out the accident as best they could and waited until local police turned up to take statements, breath tests etc... It was re-assuring to be surrounded by 6 heavily armed men in the dangerous reaches of the King's Road in Chelsea!

In China, taking on more responsibility than you have been assigned is anathema. There is no upside for a policeman who jumps in to help out on someone else's turf. If anything goes wrong the offending policeman will have all blame heaped on him.

So, the policeman will happily buy fried potatoes and will do so right up until the moment the potato vendor breaks a law that his unit cares about.

nnoble (889 posts) • 0

As a foreigner it would be presumptuous to offer suggestions. The language and suppositions embedded in the question do deserve comment.

'Immigrant' / 'migrant': Not too much respect shown here. Surely you are referring to Chinese citizens? Possibly they are from out of town but equally possible it's just a convenient label for someone who is 'not one of us', ie. better off.

'Migrants' and poor don't respect the law: What, all of them? And all monied people do?

The mindset of such use of language is difficult to fix.

Heinz (29 posts) • 0

Piers, good point. But I laughed at traffic police being "utterly disinterested in any violence that falls outside their traffic remit". I sometimes think traffic police are utterly disinterested in most things that fall INSIDE their traffic remit! I'm sure you've seen the lone cop standing like a helpless sheep in the middle of (or more likely on the other side of) a busy intersection with chaos ensuing all around or lazily looking after cars that jumped red lights at high speed. So I'd like to see them at least
taking on the responsibility that they HAVE been assigned! But then again, that may get them deep in it too if they stop the wrong guy. Hence better to do nothing or just pick on the weak!

rejected_goods (336 posts) • 0

in china, migrant workers are "poor", sure, most are. i for only am one of them.
the migrant workers dont respect the law? well, guess how many locals riding on their scooter are "color-blinded"? hhahahhahah, just the same in degree.

nnoble has a few good points, mind you, very good points.

laotou (1714 posts) • 0

So for now - seems there's not a lot we gokunmingers can do to influence a "kinder gentler" neighborhood as the problem is deeply ingrained culture?

Question of the Day (just kidding)
If it's presumptuous to offer suggestions - then is not the suggestion of presumption then presumptuous?

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