ok so en using 如果 you also need to use 就 or 的话.

examples;
(1)他 如果 不 迷恋 网络 游戏,就能考上好的大学。。。

(2)如果 你们去的话,帮我跟他说hello。

you can also use 如果 alone but most of the time people dont use it alone.

you can also use 的话 alone which is leaves the if to be implied i guess.

you can also use 如果, and 那么 with each other.
如果他不去,那么我也不去。

@ neddy, you got the point,according to my experience with Canadian friends here, they thought chinese are very implicative so they could not understand them well。 and chinese think foreigners are too straight \, some time they make Chinese feel embarrassed.

most foreigners dont pick up on whats implied. also they cant use 哦, 啊,呀,吧,吗 correctly.

they analyze things too much, and why instead of how. once you study for a year, make friends that only speak chinese. you will be amazed how fast you pick up chinese.

Little white lies is one thing but lies are lies and eventually they hurt others. As far as the cultural perspective goes, I have found many Chinese, especially the younger generation, less than 40 y/o who really HATE the lies, especially between family members.

We can never evolve into better human beings without some constructive criticism. FACE prevents people from being truly honest and from correcting mistakes. It is a vicious cycle and people merely remain the same. Sometimes we need to be embarrased when we deserve it and we need to be called out when we make mistakes.

I am glad to see that the younger chinese are embracing the direct method of communication and are improving their lives and not worried about losing face.

HFCAMPO, but aren't you implying that your way, or another culture's way, is inherently better? Saving face is a cultural trait of Asian nations. Is it only cultural? Is there universal truth involved? I honestly do not know for sure. I am just raising something to think about.

surround your self with people with same education background, same family, and money background. you wont experience those problems.
yet if you hang out with rainyz lookin for the d or hunting for free teachers inturn for them to escort you for daily life you will experience face saving... because everyone is above that person.

Neddy, I understand your point but as for me, I search for what is best in any country or culture. I lived in Japan for 3 years and their notion of Face is very different than in China. Their Face is based on Honor and they will never lie because it will cause them to lose face if they are discovered. Here in China, Face is merely a defense mechanism to avoid constructive criticism and self improvement. Chinese will put a lie on top of many lies in order to save face not realizing they lost face long ago and make themselves habitual liars.

I realize how subjective my statement is when I say I search for what is best in any culture. This does not mean others are willing to do the same or want to change and improve. Here lies the dilenma. I have found many young people here in China do want to change and learn new ways so they are changing voluntarily because they see others around them also changing.

When I was in Spain I was baffled that the light switches were very low (knee level) on the wall as opposed to how I was accustomed in the USA (shoulder level). After a few days I realized the way it was done in Spain was much more reasonable. Children can easily reach the lightswitch and people's arms naturaly hang down at about knee level so the switch can be turned on without having to raise your arms. We need understanding for each cultural difference and we should not blindly accept OUR way - just because.

I personally dislike all holidays and long term traditions because they make no sense after just 1 generation. I tell all my students to not go home for the Chinese New Year (CNY) because it is a waste of time and money. The entire country gets on a bus, train, or plane and everyone must pay higher fees as well as be trapped with 1 billion other travellers. Expensive, crowded, high risk of accidents, high risk of theft and so on. Instead I tell them to go visit family at another time. They can travel more comfortably, travel with family near their home, and have more money to spend on them instead of paying higher fees. Initially they resisit and will not do it. But as soon as one does and reports all the advantages, the others are soon to follow and they tell their parents why they do not visit for CNY. In time, the parents realize what is important is to see their kids, not When they see their kids.

I like the communities here in China because they are convenient and everything is very accessible, but they are quickly changing into the same way as the US and other western countries. Now they are building more and more gated communities like the west. You need car and must drive outside the gated community to go shopping, school, and parks. Unfortunately China is copying the west but does not realize those changes are Not for the best.

I have been in China for 12 years and Kunming for 10. In that time I have seen many foreigners get a chinese gf and in a few months they dump her and move on. In the end, the girl has learned nothing and has not improved in any way. I have seen foreigners learn chinese and even Kunminghua and the girl still can not speak a lick of english. All she learned was how to smoke pot and drink beer as that seems the only thing foreigners can teach around here. Most people, regardless of country of origin, are very selfish nowadays because of the competitive, capitalistic world we live in. (Here come the comments from the ignorant ones. Watch them come running like a bitch in heat desperate to give their worthless 2 cents.)

HFCAMPO, what do you teach? Surely not english? Telling them "dont go home for cny goes beyond english lessons?
Anyhow, totally agree with you on most points :)

"But this is CHINA", how many times have y'all heard that poor sell-out excuse, the last resort in any dispute. When you hear this, you've most likely stumbled accross something that can be disproved or improved :)

A comment has been removed from this thread. Please refrain from directing obscenities at other users at all times. Also, this particular discussion is pretty far off topic. Let's try to get it back to its original purpose.

did it become a ethic topic？