Let's Remember Where We Are

Posted in: Forums > Living in Kunming • 22 posts • Newest

• • CalMatt
    December 10, 2009
    25 posts
  • Hey folks,

    I wanted to comment briefly on a bar-fight that occurred Tuesday at Chapter One. The details of the fight aren't important, nor are the players involved.

    I think it's pertinent to remember that we as foreigners are here as guests of the Chinese government. Our presence here isn't guaranteed by law, and at any time we can be asked to leave. This has happened throughout Chinese history, in fact, but I digress.

    The point is when we behave like animals we show an alarming lack of respect to our hosts. Quite a few foreigners have built lives here with careers, spouses, and children. Whenever something like a fight happens, it casts aspersions on the entire community, fairly or not.

    I'm the last person to tell people to cloister themselves indoors and avoid going out and having fun. But the next time something like this happens, I think it's apt to remember that we're not in our home countries, and that frankly that kind of behavior isn't acceptable.

    Anyway, I hate to be a nag or a concern troll or what have you. I'm all for people going out and having a good time. But let's not embarrass ourselves, shall we?

    -Matt

• • CalMatt
    December 10, 2009
    25 posts
  • One more thing- please avoid using this thread to inquire about what happened exactly, who was involved, who was to blame, or any other details. They aren't important.

• • freewayxx
    December 10, 2009
    12 posts
  • I love the people who feel the need to lecture the entire community when a few individuals do something negative. People who state the obvious annoy me to no end.

    "The worst vice is advice."

    By the way, what happened exactly? Who was involved? Who was to blame? Can anyone give some more details. I enjoy a good drama.

• • CalMatt
    December 10, 2009
    25 posts
  • I wish it were as obvious to everyone else as it was to you, then we wouldn't have to worry these things happening. If you enjoy a good drama there are a handful of sewing circles around town that I'm sure could use a new member.

• • Greginchina
    December 10, 2009
    239 posts
  • I'd prefer to think of myself as a guest of the chinese people rather than a guest of the chinese government which has certain other connotations. Don't know who Matt is referring to but perhaps a short stint as guests of the Chinese government might put a swift end to their anti-social behaviour :-)

• • onomatopoeiaaah
    December 10, 2009
    51 posts
  • I don't think the locals would be overly outraged by two dudes fighting in a bar. It's a common enough occurance here. I think the fact that it was two Laowai fighting probably just made it a more intriguing spectacle. It's a bit much to suggest that such a minor incident would damage the reputation of foreigners on the whole. It's also somewhat condescending to the locals. I imagine the majority here are not so narrow minded as to judge a whole race based on such a trivial incident. That said, two grown men fighting in a bar is never cool is it? Unless they're dressed as giant squirrels, maybe.

• • Greginchina
    December 10, 2009
    239 posts
  • If they were dressed as giant squirrels that would be fantastic. Was that from trigger happy TV?

• • Greginchina
    December 10, 2009
    239 posts
  • "I imagine the majority here are not so narrow minded as to judge a whole race based on such a trivial incident"

    Suddenly reminded of the nationwide raging francophobia of 2008.

• • Danmairen
    December 10, 2009
    427 posts
  • Funny,, I don't consider myself a guest of the Chinese government but rather a person who is here to work in a supply/demand position. Although it's always kinda embarrasing to end up in a fight I don't think we owe China or the government of China to act better nor worse than the average Chinese person and considering the amount of fights I've seen involving Chinese only then I can't imagine that the occasional drunken brawl between laowais is something that will make a lasting damaging impression.

    Now who was it and why? :)

• • CalMatt
    December 10, 2009
    25 posts
  • I like the trigger happy TV reference. Maybe we could persuade each bar owner in town to keep animal suits in storage for such occasions?

    Good points, and I can see why some of you think it isn't a big deal. You're probably right, but I still think it's worth saying something about it. I spoke to the owner of Chapter that evening and he was shaken and quite nervous by his own admission. I can see why- he's just trying to run a business and doesn't want this sort of thing to happen.

    And foreigners are certainly judged for behavior like this. I realize that the booze is cheap and the girls are cute and the life is easy and the weather is great but it's worth keeping in mind that there are likely to be repercussions if people keep treating their time in Kunming like they're on Navy shore leave.

• • rollsroyce
    December 10, 2009
    26 posts
  • rofl.

• • timkunming
    December 10, 2009
    85 posts
  • Matt makes some good points and I can't really say I disagree. Granted, it's not the first time this has happened and when a fight goes down I think it's usually looked down upon.

    Kunming is a small place and I'm sure the details about it will become known eventually...and in this case being there along with Matt it was regrettable as it very possibly reflected badly on Ai Hua's business that night at Chapter One. As foreigners it would be cool if we were judged by the same standard that Chinese judge other Chinese by - as any visit to Kundu on any given night there are fights, but it's simply not the case.

    Anyways it's certainly good to mention it as a reminder that we're still guests here no matter how long we've been here. It's easy to forget, I guess.

    Also, I haven't been on Navy shore leave but I imagine it was similar to that, possibly with more chicks.

• • jimsc
    December 10, 2009
    9 posts
  • So Mr Calmatt informs very vaguely us that something like a bar brawl has taken place, and then insists that no one ask questions. Mr CM, Did you major in advertising, or are you just a Dipeshite?

    What the hell happened? That is the first step; it should precede the part about why the hell this is so important. Mr CM, you have yo shite backwads, son.

    Never heard a post so right as freewaxyballs: "By the way, what happened exactly? Who was involved? Who was to blame? Can anyone give some more details. I enjoy a good drama."

    Yo, you started this. You finish it.

• • kickkick
    December 10, 2009
    51 posts
  • Good thread, guys.

• • taejonwill
    December 11, 2009
    25 posts
  • Bar rooms fights I've witnessed remind me of two bears waltzing on their hind legs and growling at each other, but even sans violence, drunken boorish behavior at bars is crass. The point of drinking is to get stupid and lose contact with reality. If you stay out to 3:00 or 4 in the morning, the words turn to mush even if they are friendly.

• • onomatopoeiaaah
    December 11, 2009
    51 posts
  • Agreed. Bears have no class. Squirrels, on the other hand... with their tiny little hands and everything...

• • Tiger
    December 11, 2009
    66 posts
  • I may be wrong, and it may be different for different countries, but I remember a clause in a passport application, that one should consider oneself a guest of the country visited and that diplomatic behaviour should always be in mind.

• • Bad Boy
    December 11, 2009
    12 posts
  • Thats rich coming from you Tiger since you were a part of something at the same bar.

• • Yuantongsi
    December 11, 2009
    169 posts
  • I was there when the fight,,(whatever you want to call it) happened. The fight was over quickly and no one was hurt, but outside Chapter One afterwards what did shock me was one British guy (sorry not sure from where) telling one Thai guy very agressivly that he would "bite his nose off", for a relaxed place like Kunming the guy seemed very wound up,,or maybe just hungry.

• • CalMatt
    December 11, 2009
    25 posts
  • I'm sure the Kunming gossip-mill will fill you in about the details of the fight if you're so eager to hear them. I was hoping to avoid bitchy name-dropping in this space, that's all. Plus it's entirely irrelevant to the point of my post.

    Something tells me the very people who can't see the difference between foreigners and Chinese fighting in China are the same ones who would complain loudly about foreigners fighting in their own country.

• • timkunming
    December 11, 2009
    85 posts
  • To Yuantongsi: Probably just very, very inebriated!

• • Tiger
    December 12, 2009
    66 posts
  • @Bad Boy: For what it's worth - All this month, I have been hundreds of miles away from Kunming ... being as diplomatic as possible. :-)

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