lautou, thank you for those profound words. Just like the Japanese have suppressed what they did to the chinese, most younger chinese have no idea what an important part the USA played in driving the japanese out of China. Also i do not understand how the Muslims as a religion can spew such hatred. How they want to eradicate the entire american people because a few idiots make a horrible movie that most people would never consider watching.

@laotou

"yet I hear not a single voice of PUBLICIZED reason from the Islamic clergy and THAT is irresponsible AND heretical also."

It is likely not something that would be reported in the current media frenzy.

@tallamerican
It is unfair to make generalizations about Muslims, based on the loud voice of extremists that will feed the media frenzy.

While I don't agree with the Know-your-place-and-keep-your-mouth-shut sentiment this thread reeks of, I am well aware that there's a time and a place. That said, what's with the apologist approach? I think there's been 2 threads on GoK and they were both about keeping safe and staying out of trouble (before they mysteriously got locked, what's that about?) and it's hard to imagine a forum full of Westerners where the who/what/when and why wouldn't come up. I think both threads weren't crossing any lines and stayed within what reasonably could be expected in times like these. If Yereth feels he needs to self-censor, well, it's his site so although we can disagree wildly about the validity of such moves, in the end there's not much to do about it.

tigertiger, thank you for pointing out my error. It is so easy to forget that the actions of a minority few can often cloud our feelings for an entire people.

A basic principle. I can call my wife/mother/sister/brother/father stupid, lazy, arrogant, etc.
It would be unwise for someone else to do the same, especially in my house (rude), especially at a time when I am already angry.

There is a time and a place for all comments, this is often the place, but I don't think this is a good time.

I also agree with the sentiment in the original post

In my first post i never meant to imply china is perfect as i think every country or where ever we choose to live has plus and minuses. I am of the age where myself and many of my friends got caught up in company downsizing in the usa. I was working a lousy job but could not afford to retire in the usa. I came to china and right now am getting much more from this country than i am giving back. Example i went to hospital last week for a kidney stone. Total cost 150 usd. Last kidney stone in usa 6 years ago cost me 6,000 usd after figuring my insurance payments and deductable. Right now china is a good place for me to be.

Although I wouldn't recommend to start a argument with a crowd of angry protesters,, On the other hand I don't see what is wrong about stating in an objective way things that need to be changed.

Most of us come from countries where this is the norm,,and why not continue in the new country where we have made our home.

Would you like me to come into your house as a guest and, without being asked to, start giving negative opinions of your home/family in an objective way? Especially about sensitive issues, at a time when you already have your dander up, or are feeling insecure and/or proud of your family.

Who was it who said, "Don't come into my house and piss on my rug"?

In which culture do house guests start businesses, pay taxes, buy apartments and start families?
Hell I know many ex PRC citizens who have spent far less time in my country of birth than I have in China and are extremely vocal and involved about their adopted countries political developments, including becoming Members of Parliament- and I have no problem with that at all. If i find it really that bad I can take the choice to not listen or care- a right everyone has.

I don't think silly analogies help much either to be honest..
Countries are not houses, and small islands are not errant sons who should come back to the mother...
This forum would seem like an excellent place for foreign citizens, as well as locals to discuss events and happening, share ideas, and maybe change peoples minds.

It doesnt all have to be about "pissing on people rugs", and hopefully those interested and mature enough to discuss matters of the day can do so without being accused of "pissing"

On that note I would like to retract and apologize for calling the OP a poltroon- no offence intended...on some levels a poor choice of words.

@Yuantongsi

I don't see anything wrong with it either, other than it exhibits a bit of arrogance and a lot insensitivity. Many Chinese feel foreigners have raped, pillaged and robbed China for the last 100 years.

This is the reality of China. Whatever we think, we need to respect the Chinese feelings, anger, rage and "knowledge." Respect it because it is reality to the Chinese. Any attempt to discuss, dialogue, or educate them will just result in the anger, rage and hatred being redirected.

I have spent hours talking with post grad university students about Japan, WWII and the US role in that era. The students hatred. emotion and rage directed at Japan was scary. From my perspective it was irrational, yet I could see these feelings were real and uniform.

Which of us foreigners knows enough about China history and suffering? Which of us feels pain and humiliation as the Chinese do? For over 60 years Chinese have experienced the constant telling and retelling of Japanese atrocities? Being dismissive of Chinese feelings, in my opinion, proves a point.