Sounds like you have little to no experience with Learning a language.

Does your statement prove my point or yours? I am confused. I have been stating for the last 2 hours that the teachers and schools are NOT doing their jobs properly.

Learning a language requires 4 parts - same as a PETS or IELTS test - Reading, Writing, Listening, Speaking. If a student does NOT receive all 4 parts - then they were cheated - so I will take it that you are agreeing with me now.

Speaking does not mean they learned a language - a parrot can be taught to speak, mimic or repeat. When a child sees an apple and says apple he has learned 1 small part of the language. That learning is incomplete and can not be measured objectively until that child can write the word apple, read the word, listen to the word and speak the word.

I never use any books with pictures because kids have an amazing memory bank. They can identity every picture in a book within 6 months. This may impress an ignorant parent but when I write the word apple on a paper and the kid looks at me like a martian - I know that child did not learn and I prove to their parents that they were cheated.

I have some parents (yes they can speak chinese) but they can not read or write chinese - they are illiterate - they are impressed by their kids who name pictures because their children can do what they can not do. So they are satisfied with the little the child has learned. I educate them and tell them not to be satisfied. I tell them to only be satisfied when their kids can do all 4 things - thats learning - thats objective - thats measureable.

Then go to page 1 and read carefully - do not skim!.

7 - PETS has 5 levels (1 - 5) - Can't beat the price of a PETS test (85-185 Yuan).

Yes, they can sing songs and they can say apple, banana and elephant. If you show them letters that read APPLE they will look at you like an alien from Mars - so yes, they learned NOTHING.

So you can agree or disagree all you like - but in Hugo's world - I give parents objective and measureable results. In my book - if you can say apple, then you should be able to read the word apple and 5 year olds can learn to say, listen, read and write the word apple - this is real teaching.

Just to be clear - chlidren learn to speak from their parents but they really do not learn a language until they go to school and learn to read and write - in any language or in any country. - Of course they can talk a mile a minute by age 3 - but they are illiterate.

Exactly - well said Geez! On their first attempt the kids are on pins and needles. By the 3rd attempt, they are carefree and focused on passing the test.

Yes, it is an excellent tool to measure progress. This is why teachers and schools play dumb and never mention it - because parents can use this tool at any time to measure their kids progress. If more parents found out - they would be protesting at the headmasters door demanding why their kids can't pass this test before they get into middle (PETS1) and high (PETS2) school.

Each school makes up their own english tests and all students pass with flying colors (80+) - only for reality to hit the poor kids in the face the day they take the Zhong Kao or Gao Kao when it is too late.

If the childs entire life and future is measured by a single test (Gao Kao) at age 17 - wouldn't it be wise to have some familiarity or preparation for this great cosmic event that takes place every year.

I am sorry but I do NOT skim. I do read carefully.

I do NOT make anyone look bad - they embarrass themselves and make themselves look bad because of their own unethical behavior. I just point out the obvious for the education of the parents.

She was too young for PETS. - Please read carefully - do NOT skim! It is never too early for PETS. If an 8 yr old went to school for 3 years this means the child went to english training school at age 5 - correct?

Here is the problem - the so called training school - which you will see many ads on GK looking for teachers for children age 3-12 are lieing and cheating - take your pic on any given day - plenty to choose from - www.gokunming.com/en/classifieds/item/47830/english_teacher

As I posted earlier, I got a student when he was 6.5 years old (first grade). He took PETS as soon as possible (March or Sept). By the time he was in the 2nd grade he already passed PETS1 by his 3rd try. he failed the first 2 times.

Schools that take kids as young as 3 do NOT teach anything - they sing songs, they entertain, but they do not teach anything.

Again, in Hugo's world, Hugo does not Steal money from 3 yr olds - no matter how desperate the parents are. Hugo has ethics and directly tells the parents - come back when she is 5. Training schools are there for profit - they will happily take those 3 yr olds and pay some laowai who is here for 3 months to teach their kids. The child will go through 10-20 different laowai teachers in 2 years because they come and go as they please since they have no work visa to work legally.

There is no age restriction for PETS - so if a child has been in school since age 5 - then they should be able to manage PETS1 by age 6 since they have been LEARNING for 1 year. The problem is that this and many kids learn nothing in 1 year - nothing - they can barely say their own name and they can NOT read a single word - this is what pisses me off - this is why I started this thread - to educate parents and anyone who cares that they are being cheated by the school and socalled teachers.

If a first grader comes to me and they did NOT learn english before - I do not make them take PETS until 2nd grade.

If a first grader comes to me and they did learn english before - I immediately send them to take PETS.