@sean1

Xiamen is easily more liveable than Kunming. Also, should Kunming's haze become worse and permanent, then Shanghai, Guangzhou, Shenzhen, Chengdu, Qingdao, Hangzhou, Guilin, Wuhan, and Luoyang all become contenders. I'd even consider Hefei.

Also your top 100 would include cities with populations under 3 million. It's possible Quijing would be in it.

or hong kong or hainan.

.

Every year there is a survey of most popular Chinese cities for expats to live in. I don't recall seeing Kunming at the top, ever.

As for the Reddit list. How long ago was that. When we first looked at Kunming a lot of the downtown area did not exist (Wangfujin, etc.), a lot has changed in recent years. The things that made Kunming so attractive to foriegners are mostly the things that have deteriorated. The hidden cost of development.

The only thing that seems to have improved is Dian Chi. I can still not swim in it, but I can no longer walk across it.

On my bike ride yesterday I also visited the big flower market and production area. I noticed that they use the water directly from Dianchi in canals to irrigate the flowers plus one hell of a lot of sprays... and the run off from those sprays go where? Give you one guess. I actually saw a guy washing out his spray containers in the canals coming straight from Dianchi! And they wonder why what they are doing to Dianchi isn't doing anything? All they are doing is taking the surface plants off.

I would argue that if you aren't really going to do anything to fix Dianchi then at least use the plants that come off it for biofuel production!

Kunming is still way better than Europe,at this moment

Just moving here from Beijing ..Let me tell some of you guys how lucky you are to live in Kunming.. Its almost funny to me when i hear people complaining about the air quality ....you can see the sun and blue sky most days here.....Beijing looks like the world is ending, you might be able to have a nice day 50 out of 365... The food is a little shitty here compared to BJ,SH or other big citys... But there is cool places here and for every bad spot i have found somewhere cool to eat here. The traffic is bad?? hahahahah ..you have never lived somewhere with bad traffic!! This is china and Kunming will almost for sure be ruined eventually, but right now I'm loving it.

bjtokm you have come from the worst, gone to above average but deterioating. Of course you love it! That doesn't surprise me one bit and it wouldn't surprise any of the long term Kunming people here who would wonder what took you so long!

My intention is to ask others, particularly Kunming long timers, if they would consider moving elsewhere in Yunnan based on Kunmings constant deterioration. Those that have lived here for a long time seem to indicate they are at least thinking about it if not already doing it. Likely they will be replaced by other laowai escaping the east coast cities, which is fine, but for long term Kunmingers (ha haa mingers!) there appear to be increasingly greener pastures.

I hear you, There is always someplace better. I myself only plan to live here 2-3 years! would be surprised if i stayed longer...I guess what i am saying is there seems to be a lot of complaining on this site.. maybe you old timers could help us new comers and tell us what is good. Unless you are stupid most people already know what is bad! Like Air Q and traffic! I have heard from locals that is used to rain much more here, making it a much nicer place....Lets hope for rain.

I would like to add, Someone said the people in Kunming are less friendly....Maybe...just maybe..you are more jaded and walking around with a big sour puss? I have found the locals really helpful and friendly. Like the man said above me maybe its the contrast between BJ and KM...but life as been good here so far.It does help to realize that china does not have the same hospitality that we have at home.(most western places)....I would be lying if i said i never bitched about china or the Chinese ..hahahah But it for sure changes nothing.

Start your own thread dude if you want to know info! Not that hard and long timers (I am more like a mid timer!) will respond!