If you are Chinese you'd better ask your parents first - that's the reality folks and what it will all boil down to in the end in this situation

@vicar
see...isn't very hard.

I am stuck here for 2 more years.

I don't hate China, but i disapprove of much of the cruelty, incompetence and violence, of many, or most individuals. I think it's unnecessary, but it's culturally accepted here, to some sort, I am not a young student anymore And I need more stability and a bit more clear structure, for me, my family and my business.

So for the time being, I surround myself with the very opposite kind of people. I like the landscape. I love the food and the more moderate non rascist and aggressive people here.

But I have a kid now, and that changes things, quite a bit.

Many of the things to facilitates growth and a good life for a family is not given, here. So, I want to move on to another place, as soon as I can.

...This my dear man of the cloth, that's how I call it. If you want to call it, can't stand or hate,...sure, Then hate it is!

So if that all makes my advise so bad, Will Smith will be happy to hear from you.

i doubt will would that happy

Your advise isn't that bad. But suggesting most people here are incompetent and violent can only mean you're projecting some personal experience onto your surroundings, because it just isn't true. As for facilitating growth, with the right attitude things move faster than anywhere here in China. The stability and structure for a business you say exists out there will just lead to your enslavement to a system that offers control dressed up as help. You're seeking an oasis of harmony and bliss which can only be found in places where materialistic values are non-existent. Good on you if you choose this path

Note for English teachers: 'advise' is a verb, 'advice' is a noun.

When you give advice, on something, you are advising them.

My advice is you acquire some English skills so your students don't need to cheat on the College Boards.

No one gives a damn about the grammar on here as we aren't all English speakers and English aint the topic.
While we're at it, there are too many commas in your 2nd sentence.

prove that most Chinese aren't incompetent and non-violent. It is embedded in it's culture.

Show me, prove that is not a personal projection. The last post about violence and attacks, where people blamed me for it, I got 6 emails [Yunnan alone] telling me they had those experiences but didn't want to run into the gauntlet and talk about it here.

Plus, not experiencing doesn't mean it's not happening.
Find out yourself, look around, do some research, and in a xenophobic country ...no blame [state sponsored] and a tendency to fix problems with violence and force, it just isn't that weird.

Have you ever had to lead a team, run a company, or deal with any staff, workers? Then you know what I mean about incompetence. I don't blame anyone for it, since there are no ethics [even for medical staff], let alone any work ethic.

There is not one product, service or anything work related, or anything that needs function, that isn't screaming out incompetence. Tell me one thing that shows a sign of competence made in China, from Chinese.

Again, no blame, it's part of this culture, and the education here...-

It always goes :face first- screw the rest.

Competition and quality doesn't matter, as long as you have guanxi and mianzi.

I had three businesses in China, I was always required to have a [Chinese] partner [I mean tell me that this fact doesn't sound fishy], all screwed [or tried to screw] me over, cheated, got fake papers and contracts to push me out of the business. The government wanted to cut me out of my own business, in favor for the Chinese person.
I appreciated one official, who was honest enough to say it in a very nice and quite way, to me directly.

I don't mind high taxes or the rare screw over, in the west. In many European countries you actually receive start up help, loans are easier to get. I am allowed to buy or long term lease property or land. I mean imagine, property in my own name, with real papers and if people try to screw me over, I can actually sue them, with an actual chance of winning.
And many foreign companies noticed that Brazil an India are better options, man just talk about IP....I will stop here, because, if you really think China i a great place of running a business, then you probably don't have that much experience in business her in China.

I am not a fan of Big Brother and overly regulated stuff, also I am not in favor of American capitalism....the 2nd worst after the extreme form of American capitalism = Chinese capitalism.

I agree about the right attitude. My new businesses, are registered on my wife's name and they thrive, I treat my staff like family and things are fantastic.

So attitude helps to build a business or any project, but it can also tear it down, when people try to screw you over. I can't just sing and dance of happiness why people try to cheat me out of my business. Or am I missing something?

Since innovation and creativity are not encouraged in China, copying and plain theft, are the most common business strategies. Besides desperation sales.

Show my one proper Chinese [only] created business or idea, that works,...and I may change my mind.

That is also why so many Chinese are starving for western quality and ethics. Not because they are better [that is subjective] but they more fair and actually based on standards, quality and evolution.

Again no blame...you tell students to shut up and stream their way of thinking and then in college, you tell 'em :"Hey be creative now!"
...just won't work.

Things in China move extremely fast, until they royally f*ck up. E.g.
Construction, business, banking and stock exchange, loans for business, start ups....etc
Because they are not based on logic and rational thinking, it's all inflated, artificial, based on guanxi and greed

I am not looking for an oasis or utopia but a place with sanity and logic.

And as I said, even just good doctors and education facilities are incentive enough for us to move to basically any place that offers more and better, cleaner and safer options, so except probably war torn places, North Korea and China being off the map, everything else sounds good. Maybe even Hongkong.

But thank for saying the advise wasn't rubbish...I appreciate it...Cheers

ive known lots of competent chinese, just not in yunnan

It's embedded in the culture to negotiate on everything so they go high/low as they can when they buy/sell - you have to do the same as its the norm here.
I agree on the copy rights situation, though its catching up fast on innovation and will inevitably lead the way in the future whether it seems like it now or not due to one thing - cash. A lot of major American major technology actually came from Germans and British, who got it from Rome, who got it from Greece, who got it from Egypt .. (obviously other counties could be mentioned above). As for a place with sanity and logic - post on here when you find one please. Thanks :)

@Dazzer,
me too. But most can't stand it here, or already left.

@Vicar
negotiating isn't anything new to the west. If you have been to markets and bazaars in southern Europe, Middle East etc. there you have to negotiate, too.

But here it's mainly waiting for a customer to be desperate and then break the customers neck, squeezing out every dime.
And I am not talking about the cucumbers at the farmers market [although, there as well].

No blame,... it's a fear, face based and superstitious society.

So, I have never been at a meeting or business gathering, seeing a negotiation beneficial for both parties interests.

I have never seen a person with best price/quality ratio getting the job, and I am not talking only about our products. There have been time when we were outbidden [deserved]by better and cheaper products and still it went to ridiculous low quality overpriced products. E.g. the Aigo pen...

That is why the it's all chaos and low quality, and that is why China will never lead any products not now and not in the future. The reason why their stuff still, moves, produces and flies, is because it's taken and stolen. If that ever changes, then there is no more reason to complain about that, cos this goes synchronously with positive changes in education and business ethics.

Until then, suckidude is bliss in China.

And cash doesn't mean anything here, if it's about face and respect, people signing the contract, will blow millions of dollars, knowing that they bought complete crap. But it was a good deal for keeping face or helping the daughter's husbands 2nd degree cousin.
And that will not change ever with technological evolution. That's in the minds and hearts.

And that goes for advise as well. I have consulted on numerous issues, as a professional to professionals, being aware of face and culture and still, the craziness and I mean the literal craziness [by definition] ...and I don't mean the one saying"doing the same thing over and over and expecting different outcomes" I mean the real definition of insanity.

You asked me to post places of sanity and logic.

The World - China = Places of logic and sanity.

Now, you may say, "Hm, may that include North Korea for e.g. ? "

...Answer: "Yes!", because they don't ride you around for BS, if you ever go there, you will be told exactly what to do. And what it is!

You will be briefed about the 'what's and what not's', you'll be supervised, your rights [or the lack of], nobody tells you about smiling people, and harmonious society, and all that crap,etc.

You will get exactly what you asked for. And they keep their business deals, not talking about weapons deals, and political associations. I heard they are steady [private] business partners.

And no offense to American technology, but it's not exactly world famous, for it's quality, [although it's design is beautiful].
Outside of the U.S. it's known for being overpriced toys.

Few examples
Apple [high price/mediocre tech]
American cars [price ok/crappy tech.]
Medz. [overpriced]
Education [ridiculously expensive for a just first world standard]
Military structure [inefficient and expensive]

What makes American products good is the marketing, something U.S. is really good at.

If you disagree with it, check the quality, production costs and value with other countries.

Sorry for hijacking.

I am not bashing, just observing no deeper change in society over the last 16 years, just better clothes, nicer computers and gadgets, but the same, old same old social dealings and interactions. Some are actually regressing even further.