Tonyaod, you have said so much, so please forgive me if I do not address every single point: it is not intentional. Here are my thoughts at this time:

1. USAmerica ("America" is a continent with many countries) is not a fitting analogy to China. They are two very different countries. Now, the fact is that these supposed "pilgrims" set up a new society that committed mass genocide on the native inhabitants. Moreover, those American Natives who did not bow down to English culture were either murdered or put onto crappy "reservations". I hardly think that USAmerica is a great example of the success of cultures invading other cultures: just ask a Navajo or Cherokee what they think of President Andrew Jackson, the white pilgrims, and "cultural colonialism."

2. Yes, of course it is inevitable that all cultures influence one another, except I suppose those few Amazonian peoples who yet have made contact with the outside world. Now, if you re-read my questions and posts, you will see that I have never argued that all cultural interaction is wrong. So, I believe that many posters' premises here are simply misguided. They accuse me of things that I never said, or that I do not actually believe.

3. I originally made these sorts of posts in protest to certain Westerners who are in my life, who complain and whine about everything in China, and assert that their Western ways are superior. BillDan is a prime example, with his rants about how all Chinese food is disgusting and filthy, and imported Corn Flakes and Burger King are so much better. That is specifically what irks me so much.

Now, those are my main points. Thank you for reading, and if you could maybe condense your other 7 questions a bit, I can reply more easily. Thank you.

I think you need to make new friends.

nick, if you do not wish to contribute positively to this discussion, then please at least refrain for your personal insults, as they only serve to make you look bad.

@mm,

if a westerner comes to china and thinks the food is crap, that's colonialism?

and chinese people who go to western countries and only shop in chinatown are then also colonizing?

maybe people are just eating what they're used to eating since they were kids. and maybe you're blowing it way out of proportion and over-reacting.

and also, i get the impression that you're trying way way way too hard to fit in and you're forcing yourself to eat stuff you don't necessarily even like that much and maybe do other things you don't necessarily like that much.

and probably the locals are too busy trying to earn a living to even care.

Magnifico, no. But if he comes to China, thinks the food is crap, then loudly and boastfully says it is crap, then makes up lies about it (like, it is all cooked in human feces), and says that the worst of Western food (like US fast food) is much better, then yes, that is cultural colonialism.

If Chinese people go to a Western country and do the same in reverse, then yes, they are cultural colonialists.

As for my personal food tastes, I find it amazing that you have somehow analyzed the preference of my heart over the internet. The fact is that I love most of the food I have here.

@mmkunmingteacher

You can't really pick and choose which arguments to respond to, especially in a written debate such as this where you can take your time to respond to each allegation. If you are unclear so the specific questions then I can clarify but I see no need to rephrase my questions, just go back to the post and read it over.

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Now, to respond to your response.

1) I did not make a comparison between China and the US so you are misleading the argument away from my questions. At any rate, what happened to the Native Americans can hardly be described simply as "Cultural Colonialism". It was a systematic oppression and eradication program sponsored by the government driven by good old-fashioned greed and prejudice with a hint (ok, a lot of) racism; it is your garden variety, plain o'vanilla colonization at work. It was not subtle at all, as "Cultural Colonization" would imply.

Even if what happened to the Native Americans were "Cultural Colonization" it can hardly be argued that what we are doing at the present in China is even remotely comparable to that. WE, as foreigners, are not going about killing Chinese people if they don't eat corn flakes or shop at Carrefour, are we? How is living a 100% Western lifestyle (which cannot exist for it would be impossible not to adapt to local conditions, but for argument sake, let's say it is possible) creating the destruction and mass genocide of an entire culture?

2) And I quote:
"I do believe that expats should *try* to fit in based on what they know"

"surely you can see that there is a difference between wanting China to progress culturally (as Chinese people see fit), and Westerners trying to change it themselves?"

"I do not believe that one must LIKE the foreign culture into which one is placed. One must, contrarily, accept it and live by it."

You are arguing that we as foreigners should embrace and assimilate into Chinese culture lest we cause it some harm. If we bring in too much hometown culture then we would be "trying to change it ourselves" which, according to the logic of your 1st argument, would be committing mass genocide. A bit melodramatic don't you think? If I am misrepresenting your beliefs, please correct me with an clear accurate statement of your beliefs.

3) Now you are back-peddling which is something you should've done long ago. If indeed this whole discussion is in reaction other posters' positions, (which is quite understandable as we all get caught up in the heat of the argument) you should've conceded your point instead of performing mental contortions to justify your shaky position.

BTW, BillDan deleted his account long before you've made this thread.

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So now, if you still wish to continue the discussion, I will summarize my questions into one that is at the heart of this debate:

How is the specific behavior of the expats in Kunming contributing to the destruction of Chinese culture? And I don't want to get into generalities about the influences of foreign culture and how Chinese culture has changed as a result of those interactions. I am talking specifically of the actions of the expat community which is the core premise of your question:

"What do you believe is the line between an expat in a foreign culture enjoying a "taste of home," so to speak, and actually importing his or her own culture to the foreign one in a way that erodes the foreign culture?"

Please address this question first and if you like, the previous questions I've posted on page 6.

Looking forward to you response.

Tonyaod:

1. You clearly used USAmerica as an example of how multi-culturalism and cultural influence is good. You also mentioned the pilgrims. So if you did not mean to make that point, what did you mean, please?

2. How is the specific behavior of the expats in Kunming contributing to the destruction of Chinese culture?

Which expats? The ones I am talking about, those who constantly complain, whine, and put down China, while building up their culture to be better, are doing it in the manner in which I just described. Also, setting up little Western ghettos sends a message to the Chinese people.

Here is a specific example or two:

A. A certain Kiwi lady who literally yelled out in Chinese class, "Oh, all Chinese food is TERRIBLE! It's all disgusting!" to a very kind, polite Chinese lady teacher, clearly offending her and hurting her feelings, but she was too classy to react negatively.

B. A certain Dutch gentleman who participates in a wine club/English corner, whose Chinese friend went out of her way to buy expensive black chicken and hand-make him a delicious, special chicken soup, who said, "Oh, black chicken is too weird. I can't eat that. Yuck!" and then proceeded to say to everyone, "All Chinese food is disgusting and dangerous. You are all going to get cancer soon. Even the oil you buy new in Carrefour is tainted with disgusting Chinese farm chemicals." He then proceeded to brag (yes, brag) about how he ONLY eats food that he buys from the Carrefour imported section.

C. A certain Texan gentleman who writes horrible, offensive reviews on every Chinese restaurant in town, and insists that all Chinese food is "greasy and disgusting," and implies, or directly states (even to Chinese people), that it is cooked in human feces.

D. A certain group of Italian ladies and gentlemen who refuse to shop at Chinese markets, because they are "disgusting and filthy," and only shop at overpriced Western chains, and are not shy to tell Chinese people about it.

E. A certain American gentleman who, due to his work, must have frequent dinners with Chinese colleagues, and who always makes a big fuss and show about not ordering this and that, because it is "disgusting" and "I just can't eat that crap."

I have many more examples, but I believe that those indicate the sort of behavior that I am thinking of.

"then loudly and boastfully says it is crap"

people do not criticize the food because they're BOASTING and trying to prove that western food is superior. or most people, anyway. that's a misinterpretation and misunderstanding on your part.

"But if he comes to China, thinks the food is crap, then loudly and boastfully says it is crap, then makes up lies about it (like, it is all cooked in human feces), and says that the worst of Western food (like US fast food) is much better, then yes, that is cultural colonialism."

No, that would make THAT person a liar and a ethnocentric racist-supremacist. And that person should be IGNORED or called out upon. What that statement would not signify is that "cultural colonialism" is taking place and that something needs to be done.

This smacks of McCarthyism whereby we give a negative connotation to a label, "communism" and through twisting words, facts, and misrepresentation, place that label on different people.

"Cultural colonization" is bad because it has been used to eradicate whole cultures and if you say anything that can be SPUN into something that sounds like "cultural colonization" then you are baaaaad!~

Magnifico, every person that heard this Dutch gentleman I described agreed that he was boasting.

Tonyaod, do you have a better term to describe what I am talking about?