My experience (76 years young) has led me to believe that you find what you seek. I have been to 38 countries on duty or travel and found that I almost always find generous caring people. Just my thought! Cheers - JJ
(Plus I found a beautiful Chinese wife 42 years ago)

''if yo spend time in Guangdong and Hong Kong, you will see that rich, traditional Chinese culture still thrives.''

@mmkunmingteacher

Of course there's rich culture in HK, because its not on the mainland!

mPRin, but Guangdong is, and many places in the South have rich, traditional Chinese culture.

mm.... i tend to agree. perhaps because they are still poor. this is a rational observation, not a smart alec comment retort. in beijing it is more some kind of preservation thing, a preserve of the intelligentsia maybe.

Dazzer, that could indeed be correct.

@mmkunmingteacher : most of us are fully aware you have a great time here since you are always the first one to back up any Chinese habits on this forum. As well, you often leave comments like : "you should remember we are the guests of China and so we should follow their path".
I strongly disagree with you on that point. Yes, as immigrants we have to respect the laws and not try to impose our culture. I think bitching about China between foreigners don't harm any Chinese person and we are not imposing anything...

But when I got ripped off at the market or by a taxi driver only because I am a foreigner, I am not willing to take it with a big smile thinking "Oh yes I am just a guest of China, it's OK for me to take all the shit".

As someone else said on this thread, a very small percentage of the Chinese abroad are integrated in their new country. Most of them stay in their community, don't talk anything else than mandarin even after years of living there, eat only Chinese food and don't mix with the locals. I have seen that in France and in Canada, and I have never think that was wrong. This is quite normal actually.
So why can't us foreigners do that here ?

As well, of course you can learn tea ceremony and that kind of thing here, but this is not something common, I mean it's not on their every day life anymore. A small portion of the population has some knowledge, but what about all the others ?

I had conversations about this topic with few Chinese, very well educated and experts in traditional Chinese culture. They were the first one to tell me that sadly the culture is dead in mainland, and to find the real Chinese culture you have to go to Taiwan. The same people are equally sad that their fellow acting so rudely in the street. One scholar told me the other day that the real Chinese culture is now in Japan and Taiwan. The Chinese people used to be as polite as the Japanese, this was the way to behave here, but Mao ruined everything. Another of my friend, very well educated young woman is ashamed for not knowing anything about traditional stuff. All her education was focused on getting a good job and getting later on a good husband. She is trying to make it now, but when you see that rich people are clueless about how to serve tea properly, how can you tell me that the culture is not dying ?
So my point was that you can learn as much about the traditional culture abroad than in the country itself which is quite weird. If you go to Japan, you will get their culture in your face 10 times a day, same in Korea. But here no, you really have to look for it and can find only a few people able to teach you anything. And often the experts here are not better than the ones abroad. The educated people run away from China during the cultural revolution, they are settled down in Tw or in western countries now.

You should realize that you are strongly biased about China, you are totally in your honeymoon with this country. It's fine and I am happy for you, but you should understand as well that this cannot be the case for all of us here.

Karina,
I hear you, but let me ask you this. Have you ever spent time in a Chinese family's house? You will be served tea formally, and you will experience culture. Likely, their son or daughter will be practicing the pipa in the other room.

You have to go out and experience life to enjoy it. And sure, not everything is perfect. But if that taxi driver or vendor tries to overcharge you, is it better to just get mad and complain, or to try to learn Chinese so you can good-naturedly banter with them about it, or bargain with them?

I am far from great at Chinese, and I am far from perfect, but I do not seem to experience all of these daily, horrible situations that so many foreigners claim. I think it has something to do with the fact that I smile, laugh at myself, and try to speak Chinese with them. If they try to overcharge me, I say something like, "That seems a little expensive. Couldn't you lower the price a little?" And most times, they will. Do you try that?

Also, how many Chinese friends have you made? Have you spent time with enough Chinese people to say that all they want is money and a husband? There is much more to it than that all over mainland China. I mentioned Guangdong — have you been there? The culture there is very traditional. What I am saying is that we foreigners can sit a Sal's and Slice of Heaven every single day and eat nothing but Western food, and complain about that vegetable vendor who gave us foreigner price, or we can get down and dirty and go out into the local culture and integrate, communicate, and appreciate. I find that if we do the latter, things seem very different in a good way.

Finally, I am not in my honeymoon. I have only been here two years, but I have experienced lots of good and bad. I genuinely like China.

@mmkunmingteacher,

Having following the numerous threads bickering over trivial things and purposefully staying away, it does appear to me that you tend to hold the opinion that any opinion that does not conform to yours is in someway flawed or that that person is somehow misguided for holding that opinion.

The question you posed in your thread could be easily be reworded to ask, why do people that complain about other people on GoK keep coming back to post on GoK?

If you have beef with specific complaint then address it directly, argue, fight, bicker, whatever, but don't complaint about other people complaining. It just makes you a complainer just like everyone else.

Does it matter why people stay in China? What makes you think they are miserable? You start out by saying the people around you said this and that. Then why don't you ask those specific people why they stay in China, is there a point of making this a topic of debate on GoK? As if most members here are miserable yet decides to stay in China.

Also, as an old China hand, I find it some what offensive for you to make assumptions or pretend that you know a lot about China after having only been here for 2 years. Let me tell you, you haven't even begun to scratch the surface. You are not in any position to give advise or belittle others with an holier-than-thou attitude (at least that's how it comes across to me).

If you are talking about traditional Chinese culture, China is NOT the best place to learn about it. It would be like me saying I want to learn about English Nobility by having dinner at an American's house. Or I want to learn about French culture so I'll visit a family in Quebec or Louisianan.

I'm not sure what mean by being served tea formally, but I can tell you, throwing loose tea leaves into a dixie cup and then adding hot water is not traditional culture. Even if he brewed in in a teapot and pour it into a clay or porcelain pot to serve you is still not traditional culture. And what were you doing while drinking tea? Most certainly not reciting classic poetry, musing over a painting, or observing the beauty of a blooming flower as traditions would dictate.

So to wrap up this post, I'm not trying to take anything away from your good times here in Kunming, but I do take offense in your tone of voice and I'm better than you attitude. Live and let live. Don't make inflammatory questions/statements and then act innocent by proclaiming it was only a question. If you are truly absorbing the culture and assimilating into Chinese society, you should be posting on GoK anyway, go post in one of many myriad Chinese BBSes. And you shouldn't know what goes on at Sal's or Slice of Heaven either, you should be hanging out at the local Jiang's Brother Cross the bridge Noodle shop and having tea with your Chinese Buddies.

*End Rant*

I apologize in advance for any and everything.

Also, you blast others for believing BK hamburgers are good by essentially comparing it to what ever food you think is good and yet hold the belief that Guangdong has culture merely because you've been there without making any comparison. In other words, Bk is crap because there is an objective criteria for being good and Guangdong has traditional culture because you say so. Well, shouldn't there be an objective criteria to determine what is considered "traditional" culture. What makes you think what you observed is "traditional" culture and not some reminiscence or a bastardized version of the "true traditional" culture?

Stop being so ego-centrical and think so highly of your self-importance or perceived intellect. All of us, well, at least most of us here on GoK will thank you.

thank you Tonyaod, to bad MM will not read and take to heart. I have stopped reading his posts.