In my opinion, the bottom line is that professional, certified, qualified, experienced teachers, are in the same market as stoner-backpackers who happen to speak English. Schools want to pay the lowest amount possible, so we must compete against them. C'est la vie, I guess.

Is teaching English in China a valid profession that you can do your whole life?

I.m not sute if not having a degree makes me a stoner backpacker. And that you have to fight to prove yoursekf just proves my point. C'est la vie

you can migrate from teaching english to being a diroector of studies and or subject teaching. there are many people who have made careers out of teaching in china, thailand, and other places.

ok, thx.

@Tonyaod
You either did not read my post [entirely] or are implying that I'm lying!
I quote if for you : "[...] Same for us [foreigners] [...]"
Which clearly means that I am not a Chinese national!
And the way you express it in your last post is not very pleasant (even more if you did not read my post entirely), what let you think that I am going to lure anybody ? Dazzer said that I seem very quick to pass judgement, that's also true for you. For you, I am either a lyer or someone going to lure another one! Please refrain yourself when you do not know, thanks.
And that's exactly the kind of post that I consider as troll. Thank you for your very interesting participation in the discussion!

@The Dudeson's
Totally agree on the fact that you have many ways or tools, like you say, to nicely trick the students, helping yourself coming out of a situation (question) you are not able to solve instantly. Like you say, we are human and therefore not perfect. But, imo, there are questions that you need to be able to reply "immediately" without needing to go back to your books to be able to provide an explaination. As simple example : "that is your pen" and "that is yours" will easily come out as a question at a certain level. If you aren't able to reply that type of quite simple question from the student and need to throw it back to the class for brainstorming or find another way to "not reply" instantly, you might be constantly be forced to find secondary ways to reply your student. That might be a problem, and by the way the authority/respect you might have [or not] in front of your student will be lost after a while. I think it is very important how the students consider their teachers. Will you study hard if you have the feeling your teacher is a crap (the word might be a bit strong, but I think you've got my meaning). Examples are good and necessary but in my opinion not enough. Some times you need to be able to be sharp and very specific, but sometimes you can not because one can not know everything, I agree with that. And that when you have to use a tricky way.
I am sure many of us (Tonyaod: I said US again, please take note) learned and can speak more than 1 foreign language additionaly to their mother language, so that's nothing to do with self-prising, but personally after going through the learning process of 3 languages and be able to communicate (in daily life) with 4 (1+3), I can tell what I like and what I dislike as a student. And I really don't like to get blur answer when I'm trying to fix a question/problem I have with one specific point in one language. In other words: "Do your best to provide to others what you expect for yourself".
That said, The Dudeson's, these are really details and I think we agree on most of the points related to the topic (happy not to feel that alone, LOL). Thanks for the exchange.

I've worked alongside countless teachers in China over the last decade. All of them had the required BA Degree or higher, many had also completed a year long full-time TEFL course. The certified teachers tended to complete their contracts and leaned more toward teaching than entertaining. They either had or developed long term plans tailored to their students needs. Most, but not all, non certified teachers tended to be enthusiastic and popular with many students. Entertainment was key to their popularity. Once the enthusiasm waned they became less confident, easily demoralised and required much support and encouragement to keep going.

My guess is that it was not the content of a TEFL course that contributed to the stability of the certified teachers. Much of what I remember being taught was set aside very soon after arriving in China and others expressed the same sentiment. On reflection, the one thing a qualification may indicate is a longer term commitment and a higher level of dedication to students. Most students soon tire of the entertainment and the overwhelming majority of students I've encountered here in China genuinely want to learn. Finally, learning on the job is fine and just about everyone does this but students only get one crack at this, so pity the poor students who end up being guinea pigs. How many language school owners have a conscience?

Dudeson's, I was not referring to you. I was referring to stoner-backpackers. I should have made that clearer. I apologize. Please be assured that I was not referring to you.

@nnoble
Very realistic understanding/view of the situation, I quite agree with what you wrote.
To your question at the end of your post (to which I guess you are not really waiting for a reply, because you described it well in your post) : Very very few !

What they have or what they are looking for is to make their bank account as full as possible, as fast as possible. Which is a bit of nonsense when you are working in education area. Education is a very great area to be financially successful (if your business is successful) BUT I think one does not need to put $$$ as first to be financially successul. I think first should be education and then if you are sucessful by providing best service you can, you'll be financially rewarded!
Unfortunately, local market situation makes it so that you do not need (yet) to be serious about the service/education you provide to students/parents in order to be financially successful. And that's why so many schools (if they can be called schools, more like "making money business" I would say) are flourishing everywhere in kmg.

I know a school boss opening spots one after another and putting green hands and totally ignorant people at the head of his spots (ignorant mainly in terme of education, but not only). This is and can be only a disaster for who choose to join their classes. But that's the point, market is not mature and many many parents (who finally decide to get the cash out of their pocket) are unfortunately quite ignorant as well about what is education, or what it should be. I'm looking forward to the day the market is getting mature (it is on the way, but it's slow) and all these institutions are going to be left on the side of the road, letting those with minimum understanding about education take over their market share and be even more successful.

@Noble

I have the exact opposite experience with certified teacher. Most were ranting about that this is not what they learned. And they should have better standards, pay...all that nonsense.

Plus a college degree has not much to do with commitment or discipline.
I saw a whole bunch of certified teachers that had huge issue with the different pedagogy and methodology in China and couldn't adapt to it. So they freaked and left sometimes even without notice.

Plus certified teachers very often only stick to what they learned (not alwasy so good in China), while 'uncertifieds' tend to experiment a bit more.

So in the end it's a question of professionalism, teacher managment, and work ethics not certification.

Contract fulfillment is about professionalism and work ethics not about education degrees.
The observation you made about entertaing, I would almost agree with but after entertainment time is over, teachers either leave the school or start using different methods to reach a goal. Plus it's a school managment issue if there is a clow in class and nothing being taught. That said there is also nothing wrong being entertaining or funny while teaching, through all ages.

My point is that non certified or certified teachers are equally good and bad. And the only thing I am saying is that certified teachers should show a little bit humiliation, rather than demanding and judging and most important to be open to ideas, advise, and training, as much as other teachers.
It would at least make my job easier.

I had a very good pedagogy lecturer, he said: "You can do whatever the hell you like, dance in a clown costume, give a lecture, write it on the board, it all doesn't matter as long as the slowest student has a chance and the best one, doesn't get bored. And while you juggle that try to reach the teaching goal." His idea of teaching in a nutshell.

@Tomman
All cool tomman, I apologize as well for my grumpy post.
Tomman is cool and 'the one' poster with the best netiquette.
Cheers to that.

@wtf

I agree with you to some degree but the teacher studetn respect thing can be a handicap sometimes. And when I really went down the rabbit hole I realized that you gain more respect being real and truthful to your level of skills and knowledge, that studetn build a better relation and listen more to what you say. Delivering right answer as teacher is not the most desired, I think studetns answering and raising new questions is the best way (language learning). That said of course you should know your material but that goes more into preperation. The example you made is more like the dumba** teacher we are trying to avoid. Certified or not...lol
Btw.
Indeed it is nice discussion and I take back my previous 'stupid discussion' ststement. Thanks to you and all the other posters.
Note to self: Shouldn't judge the book by its cover.