@misfit
US and any Military for that matter are typically not historians until long after they've left their respective service. For example, @spider spent time in Iraq - ostensibly looking for Bush's mythological WMAs and then cleaning up the mess we made - and I might add, no WMA were ever found...oops. JJ wrote a book about his experiences and frustrations in Vietnam.

Since the 70's and 80's when we had our first serious (some might say concocted) oil shortage, the US sought a means to dismantle the OPEC engine to secure its domestic oil supplies. OPEC is officially neutered. I'm not saying it's right or wrong or factual or supposition. Just putting seemingly disparate facts separated by decades onto the same page.

The chess pieces tend to be far removed from the actual strategy or chessboard.

The question itself is rather silly - military bootcamp doesn't just teach policing force - it teaches how to kill, ruthlessly, efficiently, scientifically, and mercilessly. The military is the science of war and war is the last tool of diplomacy. Military service also teaches discipline, respect, honor, loyalty, camaraderie, and community (and in some cases, table manners).

While it's nice to be a peace-loving flower sniffing love-spouting evangelist - the simple fact of life is the world is not a nice place, filled with not nice people and empowered with some serious armament. Even Yunnan has its very very very ugly dark sides which most never see or experience.

If you think military force is just awful - ask any chinese about the Japanese firebombing of Shanghai (deliberately targeting civilians in direct violation of the impotent Geneva Conventions for "civilized" warfare) or of the Nanjing genocide and other war crimes and then whether they favored the nuclear obliteration of two japanese cities and all of their civilians. Japan and the USA cover up and continue to obscure the impact those nuclear bombs had on the Japanese gene pool, but we all know...and see. In case you're interested, the US government prevented the trials of the majority of Japan's Class A war criminals and even hired Klaus Barbie (infamous Nazi SS officer) whom it is rumored assassinated Che Gueverra.

If you think force is un-necessary in this day and age of enlightenment - well, I truly and sincerely wish I could see things with your eyes or at least live in your peaceful harmonious neighborhood...or maybe smoke what you're smoking - just a whiff is enough.

You SHOULD visit tonite's soiree. Most military hope they'll never have to go to war again, but if asked - they'll step up to the plate and put their lives in harms way again - just so we can sit around and muse "is deadly force really necessary in this day and age of enlightenment"...

If you have a chance to visit LA - go visit this guy named Raul Reese (Spelling is questionable - but he's well known) - he's a born-again Christian evangelist. He was a former LA gang banger and all around seriously bad violently insane dude. He was kicked out of the US army (in vietnam) because he liked killing too much - they were afraid of him...."and the lion shall lay down with the sheep".

This is a contentious issue and really does not serve any good purpose. For most serving men, they are doing a job. The political views of most serving men does not usually fall in line with government policy, because they are free thinking men and not automatons. Your political views do not need to be to the right of Atila the Hun's to serve your country, hell many of the men I served with were socialist in their thinking.
I meet a**holes from all walks of life, I also meet great guys from all walks of life. Whether of not people were in the military has nothing to do with the a**hole factor. It also does not peg a person political leaning.
Blanket labelling is not accurate or helpful. Look at the general labels applied to expats in China. Most of us do not fit the stereotype.

My 2 cents

Well put @laotou

Wish I could go, but I'm not very familiar with kunming's layout, so don't know where this place is.

Also, the rain bothers my knee.

laotou of course i can see that peace is not the answer otherwise we wouldn't have been spending millenniums keep doing the same thing called war (actually enlightened guys such as locke for example stated that people are entitled to do revolutions with army if they are under oppression).
but the recipe for a society are often not the same as the recipe for individuals,so my question is:
if your country/ethnic group/community would ask you to kill your wife/sons/parents/girlfriend for them (like the bible story of isaac and abraham for example) instead of just kill a so called "enemy" would you do it?
how far can your sense of belonging to a group or your obedience go?
please don't use realpolitik to answer but just what YOU really think...

Misfit - - since I can't "legally" have guns in China - don't guess I'll make the meeting. JJ

Please remain on topic, and use the private messaging function if you want to chat with other users.

Thank you

If my knee feels up to it, I might swing by for a bit later.

@misfit
In my opinion, a country is a place to raise your family and children. If my country asked me to kill my family - I'd move if possible, or simply rebel. Hopefully, I'd have to good sense to never be in that position to begin with.

Won't make it to the gk mashup either - we old farts are cream puffs when it rains.

@JJ
You CAN legally own guns in China - you just need to both have permission with the PLA and store them at the PLA armory. It's generally safer that way anyway....for China. The only problem - moving your artillery here is problematic from BOTH sides. The BATF will wonder why you're shipping arms to China (don't know if that's still embargoed) and the Chinese gov will probably ask the same thing.

I'm still debating bringing over my competition bow (like - where can I shoot that thing?). It's quieter - has a somewhat shorter range than most firearms and reloading is just a step away (or about 100 meters for long range compound field bows).

I guess the the rain stopped the " Seals, Rangers and Delta" tonight just one lonely ex Brit 2nd Para made it, LOL

maybe next week, or would a place with whoopy cushions suite better.... just kidding.

btw the Shepherd's pie is fantasist.

did tommann aka crazy.laowai show up?

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