@tiger

"I can see the potential for down voting being counter productive. Although it does not produce trolls, as trolls already existed; but they do need to be controlled."

How do you know trolls like JC aren't the holy resurrection from a GoK crucifixion?

Perhaps they were GoK natives who started out not as trolls, but suffered humiliation from our tribal stoning.

Like mass shooters who return to school with their AK assault rifle to punish classmates, teachers, or the very institution that wronged them. These shooters rarely make their last stand in a different school. Most often the same school they suffered peer exclusion or duress.

If not, visiting trolls were exiles from another website. Like Napoleon was exiled from France to Africa in the 19th century.

My point is:

Trolls, wherever they're from, are the products of disparagement, hence are already desensitized by down-votes. Down-votes are ineffective weapons against trolls, but effective in discouraging newbies or mindful contributors such as @herenow.

Keep up-votes. Remove down-votes. Add ignore/block/spam button features.

--------------

GoK feedback on our feedback would be appreciated.

First name Hung. Last name Lo. My friends call me Hung Very Lo.

You know it’s gone sour when @dolphin tells y’all to knock it off! ;)

--------

@ASB wrote:

“Trolls, irreverent posts, and thread hijacking also ‘discourage participation’ ”

Trolls are the products of down-votes - hence are unfazed by them. Like bacteria spawned from cesspool of rot, immune to decay. The more crap you throw at trolls, the stronger they become. You defeat trolls by not feeding them.

Similarly, uncivil members who post irreverently have fought in countless wars, perished, and reincarnated. Battled hardened, they’re also desensitized by down-votes… as are those who are thick-skinned enough to hijack threads. Down-votes have limited impact on them as well.

By process of elimination; positive contributors sensitive to the etiquette of online discourse are most susceptible to deterrence of down-votes. They are the great majority we should encourage to participate with carrots, not discourage with sticks.

---------------

@DanTheMan

Contributing useful info is definitely one of the hallmarks of GoK.

Creating a vibrant community for travelers of distant lands could be equally invaluable. A safe-haven for all to interact with civility and tolerance, personality-clashing notwithstanding. Constructive dialogues are what gives this second home warmth... and a soul.

"Quiet" is reserved for bulletin boards, museums, and libraries. "Noisy" would be Politico forums fueled with heated debates littered with snide remarks.

We need to meet somewhere in the middle.

------------

Censorship isn't just about the brute blocking of websites (i.e. GFW), or disabling comments with a figurative muzzle.

Censorship is also psychological.

It's about changing social behaviors. Cognizant of being monitored, individuals refrain from expressing their true opinions due to the anticipation of a blow-back. That's when free speech has been compromised... in the psyche.

My rare instances of agreeing with @dolphin.

Down-votes discourage participation. Not good for GoK.

Whereas up-votes/likes/love buttons encourage active participation by positively reinforcing users to openly speak their minds. More discussions equal more traffic.

There's a good reason major social sites don't implement down-votes at all. If down-votes exist, they bottom out at zero. Very few sites display the negative votes by themselves, let alone conceal comments.

Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Youtube, Disqus, Digg, Reddit, Pinterest, just to name a few, have all done their research. They follow the same protocol by disabling the discouragement tools that deter user engagement.

These sites understand the deep-rooted psychological effects of down-votes on users' mindset. Our intrinsic fear of being rejected by the tribe. Most of us would rather conform quietly than oppose the norm and risk the feeling of getting socially shunned by the group. The mere apprehension of a potential disapproving vote may keep members at bay from even attempting to comment.

More so the case for uninitiated newbies seeking to fit-in in an new environment may inherently perceive a single down-vote as a collective voice, which in fact is a misrepresentation of the community.

GoK ought to look into it. Potential active participants far exceeds the trolls of JC or HH.

Briefly touch on counterfeits and segue back to OP's online bike purchase discussion:

Chinese counterfeiters have to consider economy of scale. They usually mass produce popular apparel or electronics that are in high demand. Such as knockoff New Balance shoes we see scattered across Kunming with their outrageous name variations, lol…. fake Sony earphones, or the ubiquitous low quality components @Tiger alluded to. No name earphones that lasts two months due to poor internal wiring.

However, when it comes to more novel items in niche markets with less turnover such as OP's specific Boskey touring bike (fyi "游行车"), the risk of that being a counterfeit on Taobao shops is relatively minimal due to low ROI.

Tmall flagship stores would counter such risks, but they aren’t completely risk-free. Sometimes aftermarket items in their b&m stores may sneak into their discounted online inventory to be cleared out.

If you notice any defects, these flagships or their cheaper official distributors (代理商) on Tmall usually offer 7-day no-fuss, full refund return policies (七天无理由退货). Return shipping fees are not under warranty unless you prepaid for insurance. Nonetheless, a sound safeguard for buyers.

Apart from 11/11 Tmall flagship promotions, which are a bargain in terms of low cost for high quality, Tmall flagships remain expensive on most days to avoid competing with their b&m stores and/or piss off their franchisees.

------------------

@dolphin wrote, “But there are Chinese manufacturers making good bikes.”

Most definitely. Some local generic brands may be manufactured by the same original equipment manufacturer (OEM) that name brands outsource productions to.

For example, my friend’s OEM factory manufacture apparels for flagship Nike, even Nike’s rival Adidas, Northface, Puma, among others that are exported. They also mass produce for brandless Chinese apparel companies tailored to the domestic market, as both OEM and ODM.

Hence, the products of these miscellaneous brands come from the same source that churn out authentic global brands displayed in fancy department stores. Same production know-how & raw materials, granted design and QC differ.

Same goes for China based OEM factories in the immense supply chain for Apple products. For example, one of Apple’s battery suppliers would also manufacture smartphone batteries for less well-known local brands. This OEM would supply across markets to various electronic devices, or batteries for ebike and solar panel makers.

As the old Chinese saying goes, “一分钱一分货" (or "you get what you pay for"). The concept even applies to merchandises of knockoff LV bags, which comes in three to four scales of quality & price range.

However when you buy good quality items for low prices, particularly during sales, that is a bargain in my book. A penny saved is a penny earned.

To say there are "no real bargains in China" or infer ubiquitous low quality or counterfeits may be anecdotal and subjective. Statistics of small numbers if you will, granted be cautious with shady sellers and their manipulation of price to product listings.

For example:

A one yuan Nike Air, just ignore.

400 yuan? You may have to select size and color first, which will increase the item's final price. The 400 yuan shoe listed was the pink colored size 4! lol Yes @dolphin, you've been click-baited.

The landscape of competition for sellers are fierce. Sellers look for no holds barred loopholes, but within Alibaba rules & guidelines.