Both have their strengths and weaknesses. Neither place appears to make it easy to just turn up and live for an extended period, and that is fine (though I still think the 2008 Olympic visa changes should be relaxed! It's like getting blood out of a stone to get a visa to come visit a place you've lived for 10 years!). Cost-wise, with the changes in the Chinese internal economy and the exchange rate Thailand is definitely cheaper to go and live at the moment, though this was not the case in the past. Some other areas it excels over Yunnan are internationalism (particularly in Bangkok; and anyway this is a double-edged sword), cultural facilities (museums, libraries, music and art scene, events, etc.), internet speeds, international transport links, general lack of bureaucratic hassles, and access to beaches. Yunnan is cooler, has greater climatic variety, has beautiful mountains and great rivers, and thankfully avoids that (behind the scenes, frequent, Thai assumption that) 'all farang are walking ATMs and sex tourists' type attitude. Yunnanese people, particularly from smaller areas, are generally really open and honest, and didn't get up in the morning to take a chunk out of you-or-some-other-farang's wallet. Hehe.
It's a credit to GoKunming and to China's increasing openness that this discussion can occur in a public forum.
While there have been definite integration policies in play during the latter part of the 20th century (re: languages available in mass media, languages available in education, questionably enforced script changes for some minorities, etc.) it makes sense to look at (mostly the same) minorities across the border in Vietnam, Laos and Burma to see some alternate versions of the potential present for traditional peoples of the greater Yunnan region ("Zomia").
While I certainly maintain some reservations regarding some of those recent policies, after spending time in all of those places (except Burma, where I have been to the Yunnan and Laos borders in multiple places over a decade period), I think it is fair to say that generally, those traditional peoples of the region who are based within Yunnan have greater access to education and technology, relative freedom of movement (socio-economically) and greater 'standard of living' by de-facto global perspective (though this, economically rationalized view, has serious limitations) than their peers over the borders. In this sense, it is fair to say that the government is definitely doing a good job. So, congratulations to the local authorities: I know I wouldn't want that burden!
Interestingly, it might be noted by other participants that the initial serious integration of Yunnan with the rest of China occurred under a Central Asia born Muslim from Bokhara in Turkmenistan, who was a personal bodyguard of the Khan at the dawn of the Yuan Dynasty and effectively retired to Yunnan to take up the historically very difficult task of attempting to govern and bring under control this formerly wild borderland. He is known to have advocated (personally, to the emperor) the careful application of unique policy exceptions within Yunnan, for example removing the requirement (which he claimed as untenable) that all commerce be conducted within Chinese money. Apparently the policies served their purpose, though the apparent anti-foreign sentiment at the dawn of the succeeding Ming Dynasty culled the family's size (through apparent murders) as well as their political influence. Despite this, his great (great?) grandson was Zheng He, the (vindictively Ming authority-enforced?) eunuch-admiral at the turn of the Ming Dynasty who took Chinese treasure fleets as far as here in Indonesia, India, the Middle East and East Africa. (Just yesterday I visited a mosque and cafe in eastern Java named after him.)
Needed ID just to get a train an hour west of Chengdu to see the ancient irrigation works last December. Didn't have a passport so after a discussion and a growing queue they agreed to just enter the same as my brother's and increment the last digit, hah!
Needed ID just to get a train an hour west of Chengdu to see the ancient irrigation works last December. Didn't have a passport so after a discussion and a growing queue they agreed to just enter the same as my brother's and increment the last digit, hah!
As per Ouyang's comments: as of a few months back when I was last inside the great firewall: VPN is needed to popular trackers, but any torrent itself will work fine. Ian's comment on encryption is pertinent - no idea if it's required, but it's a good setting to enable anyway. Also try randomizing your port numbers. Also check out VeryCD - a Shanghai guy's tracker for emule stuff. It's mostly in Chinese, but way fast inside China, and a good alternative to torrents. For TV or film, check out PPTV and other services which work great inside China. But don't trust that software on your main system if possible - run it in a VM (see virtualbox.org/ or vmware.com/)
We delayed a week due to bad weather and went down last weekend, though it took us all day to get there.
We found the village named in the linked Chinese article - Shati (沙提) - and indeed there are lots of boats there, but they are all made of metal, not of wood. Currently because it is the end of the season they are all hauled up on land being re-coated. There is quite a lot of pollution as the village burns off its rubbish right next to the lake... even though they fish from it. Some government garbage collection effort is necessary!
Anyway, it should be possible to get a half-day on one of the boats when the season re-opens, according to the locals it runs from about April/May through October.
Nearby villages also have boats, it's not exclusively that one place, but that's where a fairly large fleet of fishing boats is based (upwards of 25 of them).
The easiest way to get there is to get a bus from near Haigeng Gongyuan in the Dianchi Road area of southwest Kunming for 4元. The bus simply goes straight down Huanhu Lu (环湖路), and the very last stop is close to Shati, either you can walk there down the main road (about 15 min) or you can get a cab or local bus from there.
Unfortunately, much of the nearby area to the northeast along the coast has been destroyed and is completely overdeveloped with stupid empty 'resorts', golf courses and ridiculous housing developments. There is an exception though. We also found a natural area a little beforehand, where the severe cliff topography has prevented over-development and there are still some beautiful little villages with some lovely old traditional houses still standing. The locals said that in March or April, when the water is lower, it is possible to walk across the lake and around the cliff. Could be a nice trip!
Actually the date (1400-1500BC) would mean it was earlier than the Dong Son culture proper, instead contemporary with its predecessor in the mid Vietnamese middle bronze age, the Đồng Đậu culture.
Alien, the immediate north around this period was the Shu Kingdom of Sichuan.
The Shu were very talented bronzeworkers.
However, the site of the discovery is very close to Tonghai (通海), which although probably a far later toponym, literally means "connection to the oceans", and probably refers to the area's ancient role as a critical stop on trade routes connecting central Yunnan's lake-plateaux with what is now northern Vietnam via the Red River. In a sense, once you had arrived at Tonghai, you had arrived at the "oceans" (large lakes). Similarly, if you left Tonghai southward bound for the Red River, you were heading toward the ocean proper.
Note also that the Dongson bronze drum culture of northern Vietnam is very significant in the region. It spread its influence and artifacts to Yunnan as well as Burma, Cambodia, Thailand, Indonesia and the Philippines.
Therefore I would hazard a guess based purely upon geography and timing that the early evidence of bronzeworking discovered in Tonghai was likely due to technological and cultural influences from northern Vietnam rather than Sichuan's Shu Kingdom.
@nailer is being unfairly dismissed: they are certainly fallible. At one point they were well managed and the only game in town, and their outdoor bar had an interesting social vibe. Recently, none of these is the case (was given a bad bill to the tune of ~300% - no managers present and a subsequent complaint resulted in a less than ideal outcome, many more places are now open, and the outdoor bar is closed). Unless you are specifically seeking faux-Americana (often far better examples elsewhere) or two degrees removed faux-Mexicana, there's little reason to go there. How come French Cafe can serve a great sandwich for 24元 but Sals requires 50元 for a pretend-exoticized nibble? Certainly the business will continue, but the hey-dey is clearly gone. Romaniticizing the past aint gonna help. E-waste recycling by shipping (non carbon neutral) junk across the country? Puh-lease. Garbage processing people here recycle anyway! I applaud the ethical stance of one of the managers, but the place has frankly lost its mojo.
Called the number provided on a Friday at 2:15PM while a 10% discount was advertised "on Friday and Saturday" (listed in GoKunming specials).
A Chinese person answered the 'English' phone number in Mandarin then explained in broken English that you need to order 3 hours in advance. (Subtext: As their business is so slow)
Grumble. False advertising. Waste of time. Seems 100% Chinese run. Probably bad pizza.
The listing here is wrong! Teresa's are not defunct, they are just back to being one store instead of two stores on Wenlinjie now! They are still in business, still answer on this phone number, and are still delivering! Points for consistency, it's been years! As of right now, it's 68元 for the more toppings vegetarian at the largest size. They will do thin or thick crust. Yes, it's not to everyone's taste, but I always used to find adding dried chilli powder and some extra salt brought it up to tasty. Might go for a dash of Sichuan pepper oil to spice it up this time around. (You know you've been in China too long when...)
Honestly, I wish them the best of luck, but I do think the staff are poorly managed and the owners have the wrong attitude and a clear lack of experience in service-oriented business. While the pizza is OK, everything else I have tried (including overnight stay) can be had cheaper and better elsewhere, and the pizza at Roccos is better in my opinion. The service has always fluctuated between acceptable to don't care.
Since they don't have their situation resolved yet, and it has been a few years, I have made the decision not to go there anymore or send anyone else. It's just not worth the hassle, given the crappy location (masked as private or lost). Better pizza with more quiet and privacy on Roccos' terraces.
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Fishing 'season' ends on slowly reviving Dianchi Lake
发布者We delayed a week due to bad weather and went down last weekend, though it took us all day to get there.
We found the village named in the linked Chinese article - Shati (沙提) - and indeed there are lots of boats there, but they are all made of metal, not of wood. Currently because it is the end of the season they are all hauled up on land being re-coated. There is quite a lot of pollution as the village burns off its rubbish right next to the lake... even though they fish from it. Some government garbage collection effort is necessary!
Anyway, it should be possible to get a half-day on one of the boats when the season re-opens, according to the locals it runs from about April/May through October.
Nearby villages also have boats, it's not exclusively that one place, but that's where a fairly large fleet of fishing boats is based (upwards of 25 of them).
The easiest way to get there is to get a bus from near Haigeng Gongyuan in the Dianchi Road area of southwest Kunming for 4元. The bus simply goes straight down Huanhu Lu (环湖路), and the very last stop is close to Shati, either you can walk there down the main road (about 15 min) or you can get a cab or local bus from there.
Unfortunately, much of the nearby area to the northeast along the coast has been destroyed and is completely overdeveloped with stupid empty 'resorts', golf courses and ridiculous housing developments. There is an exception though. We also found a natural area a little beforehand, where the severe cliff topography has prevented over-development and there are still some beautiful little villages with some lovely old traditional houses still standing. The locals said that in March or April, when the water is lower, it is possible to walk across the lake and around the cliff. Could be a nice trip!
Archaeological find changing understanding of Yunnan's Bronze Age
发布者Actually the date (1400-1500BC) would mean it was earlier than the Dong Son culture proper, instead contemporary with its predecessor in the mid Vietnamese middle bronze age, the Đồng Đậu culture.
en.wikipedia.org/[...]
Archaeological find changing understanding of Yunnan's Bronze Age
发布者Relevant Wikipedia pages: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%90%C3%B4ng_S%C6%A1n_culture and en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shu_(state)
Archaeological find changing understanding of Yunnan's Bronze Age
发布者Alien, the immediate north around this period was the Shu Kingdom of Sichuan.
The Shu were very talented bronzeworkers.
However, the site of the discovery is very close to Tonghai (通海), which although probably a far later toponym, literally means "connection to the oceans", and probably refers to the area's ancient role as a critical stop on trade routes connecting central Yunnan's lake-plateaux with what is now northern Vietnam via the Red River. In a sense, once you had arrived at Tonghai, you had arrived at the "oceans" (large lakes). Similarly, if you left Tonghai southward bound for the Red River, you were heading toward the ocean proper.
Note also that the Dongson bronze drum culture of northern Vietnam is very significant in the region. It spread its influence and artifacts to Yunnan as well as Burma, Cambodia, Thailand, Indonesia and the Philippines.
Therefore I would hazard a guess based purely upon geography and timing that the early evidence of bronzeworking discovered in Tonghai was likely due to technological and cultural influences from northern Vietnam rather than Sichuan's Shu Kingdom.
Fishing 'season' ends on slowly reviving Dianchi Lake
发布者Three of us are going down to try to get a sail on Sunday, one more space in the car, PM if interested!