@HF: I can assure you that it is not me... already time-consuming enough posting here. And i'm glad that i dont experience a dissociative identity disorder! But if so, i would have chosen the nickname ADOLF.

No, he just will dissapear... sliding down the exact same sinkhole he came from earlier. Mission completed!

@Liumingke

I would not react to that troll, he does that on purpose. Also he got his nickname completly wrong, it should say Complete As..... you know what i mean.

@Xiefei

With your ten-words-comment, it won't get bigger soon.

Wooops, Gandalf the Grey is speaking... hear hear. Why do you even bother post in here?
"54321->quick go back where you come from!"

@Dudeson's:

You made your points and also did wrote a lot of stuff i agree with.

But one thingy i can't let slip and so, here it goes.

You wrote:

"I think it's fair to say, that the score is even, even if HFCAMPO or others, are not good or fluent in Chinese."

- Not the best excuse for laziness, "because they don't do it, so we don't have to do it".
Actually in other countries you have the duty to learn the language and doing a test if you want live there. (pretty sure Germany does have it)

"China is crazy expensive, and studying Chinese takes a lot of time, compared to learning English, since most people start to learn the World language in school."

- Crazy expensive only applies if you make 1500 - 2500 RMB/month like regular chinese citizens and depends on which lifestyle do you have here.

"Actually my Chinese is pretty bad, for being here that long. And to be honest I can't and never could, afford the time or money to study in a real course. I would love to, no questions, asked! But I don't have 13k RMB/ annually and 6 hours a day available and never had. And not allowed to make one penny as a student to provide for my studies and family."

- Sorry, but that's another lazy excuse. I'm here for almost 8 years now, did not one day attend a language school except half a month in a evening course back in my home-country (after that i could say ni hao and xiexie).

I had struggle the first 3-4 years, but it got better everyday, because i actually had/have to speak with chinese colleagues/friends/random people everyday. Was never easy and i honestly thought it would never get better... but, suuurpriiiise it got!

And that's exactly the point, you actually have to speak with chinese people and not just with your chinese friends who probably speak pretty good english. Breaking out of the safe heaven and learn it just by actually speaking/hearing it.

I still can't understand how you teachers can teach properly, if you can't speak the student's native language... explain meanings and so on.

Btw. i dont have the time too, two kids and a fulltime job... but i would never use such a silly excuse for still not speaking chinese!

Just my two cents... and now back to harmony, like HF wrote in another thread.