Just rereading your post above HFCAMPO, based on your observations, does that mean older foreigners are simply not welcomed in the job market and we would be beating a dead horse for trying to change it?
Is the take away from all this is that teaching in China is mainly for the young or the foolish and will be tossed aside once they are used up?
What job options do a older experienced foreign teachers have and what is a reasonable pay range?
What you've said is correct, and in hindsight, maybe this discussion was relevant only in my mind about 10 minutes ago after my 10th cup of coffee. Perhaps the job market as I've stated is too varied and different for it to be generalized into one and that probably doomed the discussion from the onset.
I guess I was looking at it from the perspective of an average job seeker. If I was looking for a job, what would be fair compensation for my time and is it a rate that the market will bear.
The best analogy I can think of is if a guy went to a Ferrari dealership looking for a commuter car. Even after the deal offered a 50% discount the buy still balks at the "high price". From both perspectives they are correct, the car is both a good deal and too expensive.
Now, is this the situation that we have in Kunming and China? Is it a fundamental problem of trying to fit a square peg into a round hole where in the end no one can be happy no matter the solution?
And I do realize this could all just be in my head and no one else feels the same way, but I wouldn't know until I asked, right?
To answer you question, I'm not looking for a job or a visa. I'm in my late 40s and will be in Kunming for a few years or maybe not depending on where life takes me.
Sorry Geezer, not trying to offend and it is not my intention to spread libel.
As I've stated, the opinions are not mine, only what I've gathered from the multiple threads on this website. If my understanding of the gist of the teacher's general complaints are incorrect then I apologize.
As to how much is enough, that is one of the main points of discussion I would like to engage in. The schools believe they are paying too much for too little service while teachers believe they are paid too little for what they deliver, so who's argument is more valid?
As to spreading rumors, I'm lost on that point. I don't see how my inquisition is spreading rumors? Or is it best to just not discuss anything remotely controversial?
I tried starting a discussion thread on KM Foreign Teacher's Job Market
but it seems to not have passed the censors so I'll try again here.
Apologies to the OP for semi-hijacking your thread but the topic is along the same vein.
Having talked to many foreign English teachers and seeing the plethora of job posting by local touts here, I really would like to discuss the reality of teaching English in China, and specifically in Kunming.
I've read through the forums and the main complaint seems to be: the schools are not paying enough, the job conditions are horrible, the owners are unscrupulous business-devils, expectations are unrealistic and yet, most seem to stay in their jobs (or Kunming) regardless, always looking to jump ship for a better paying job.
On the flip side, the schools believes the foreign teachers are overpaid, unprofessional, inflexible, and unreliable. Yet I see the same companies keep advertising the same job positions with no change to their compensation package despite obviously not being able to retain their previous hire.
So, given the two opposing viewpoints which one is more reasonable? Who's expectations are more unrealistic? Do your average foreign teacher deserve the salary they feel they are entitled to? Are the schools simply not paying enough to make it worth while for the teachers to put in the effort? Or will English teaching in China be forever relegated to the realm of the traveling circus and the snake oil salesman?
Let's hope the Chinese, both its people and the government, does not make the same mistake as Japan did in WWII, into thinking that Americans are too soft and lack the resolve to pursue its enemies. If nothing else, history has shown that the US have its share of vindictive, hate-filled people who love nothing more than a fight based on perceived slights, Any attack on America will not be easily forgotten or forgiven.
If you are not interested in their work or project, even 20 seconds is too long. If you are truly into what they are doing, you would love to hear every little nuance that would give you better insight.
From what I can gather, this event is meant to create a platform for people to showcase their work but because the audience might not be interested, you'd have to distill ideas into 20 second sound bites. So that begs the question, if they aren't interested in your project why would you bother pitching it to them? And as an audience member, why would you go to one of these presentations if you are not interested in what they are presenting? Anything worth doing is worth doing well, unless this is one of those "social" events where people can go and pretend they are more "cultured" than the rest of us. Then in that case, lets just go through the motions as quickly as possible so we can get to the drinking and socializing bit at the end.
We are now devolving into a culture of instant gratification, short attention spans and sound bites. Nothing is worth giving more than 20 seconds worth of discussion before moving on to the next topic. Ideas are now commoditized and pass around like fast food because we are no longer capable of in depth thought. Much like fast food, immediately after consumption it feel as if you are full, but in reality, nothing of real value was given. This is true of TED talks, it started well but soon became a money making scheme where anybody willing to pay the fee can give a "talk". Most talks given, however, are nothing more than filler that can be googled, nothing ground breaking. It has more value to the presenter for it adds a line to their list of "accomplishments" than the audience.
I'm sure this event is well meaning and has perceived value to those who participated but I wouldn't recommend patting yourself on the back for attending.
Please excuse the ramblings from this grumpy old geezer.
I wonder how that someone got to Chinainthe first place, certainly wasn't by walking or bicycling. nor by ship. And unless there is a secret trans-Atlantic or trans-Pacific railroad, not by train either.
And what kind of renewable, non-environment harming energy he is using to fire up all those electronic gadgets he uses to go online.
Ya know, my pa had a sayin, don't shit where you eat and most certainly don't complain about The smoke if you want a BBQ rib.
As 'New China' turns 70, a look back at National Days past in Kunming
Posted byLet's hope the Chinese, both its people and the government, does not make the same mistake as Japan did in WWII, into thinking that Americans are too soft and lack the resolve to pursue its enemies. If nothing else, history has shown that the US have its share of vindictive, hate-filled people who love nothing more than a fight based on perceived slights, Any attack on America will not be easily forgotten or forgiven.
Snapshot: Kunming's first ever PechaKucha Night
Posted byIf you are not interested in their work or project, even 20 seconds is too long. If you are truly into what they are doing, you would love to hear every little nuance that would give you better insight.
From what I can gather, this event is meant to create a platform for people to showcase their work but because the audience might not be interested, you'd have to distill ideas into 20 second sound bites. So that begs the question, if they aren't interested in your project why would you bother pitching it to them? And as an audience member, why would you go to one of these presentations if you are not interested in what they are presenting? Anything worth doing is worth doing well, unless this is one of those "social" events where people can go and pretend they are more "cultured" than the rest of us. Then in that case, lets just go through the motions as quickly as possible so we can get to the drinking and socializing bit at the end.
Snapshot: Kunming's first ever PechaKucha Night
Posted byWe are now devolving into a culture of instant gratification, short attention spans and sound bites. Nothing is worth giving more than 20 seconds worth of discussion before moving on to the next topic. Ideas are now commoditized and pass around like fast food because we are no longer capable of in depth thought. Much like fast food, immediately after consumption it feel as if you are full, but in reality, nothing of real value was given. This is true of TED talks, it started well but soon became a money making scheme where anybody willing to pay the fee can give a "talk". Most talks given, however, are nothing more than filler that can be googled, nothing ground breaking. It has more value to the presenter for it adds a line to their list of "accomplishments" than the audience.
I'm sure this event is well meaning and has perceived value to those who participated but I wouldn't recommend patting yourself on the back for attending.
Please excuse the ramblings from this grumpy old geezer.
Beijing approves massive Changshui International Airport expansion
Posted byI'd tell ya but wouldn't want to go off topic. Suggest you do like wise.
Beijing approves massive Changshui International Airport expansion
Posted byI wonder how that someone got to Chinainthe first place, certainly wasn't by walking or bicycling. nor by ship. And unless there is a secret trans-Atlantic or trans-Pacific railroad, not by train either.
And what kind of renewable, non-environment harming energy he is using to fire up all those electronic gadgets he uses to go online.
Ya know, my pa had a sayin, don't shit where you eat and most certainly don't complain about The smoke if you want a BBQ rib.