I am puzzled by people on these forums who appear to have a problem with GoKunming making money. How is the site supposed to stay afloat in the long term? How are the owners and staff supposed to pay their rent?

I think it is simply wrong to use a service while vocally begrudging its providers fair recompense for their labors, especially when the service is provided free of charge to users.

If you're so enamored of the idea of people doing work for free and you're not satisfied with this website, why not practice what you preach and start your own zero-revenue site? The time, money and technical skills required are minimal these days with WordPress and the like.

Or could it be that the people who were running GoKunming as a "simple, free bulletin board" back in the day realized that it wasn't a sustainable model? And perhaps you will discover the same if you try.

Instead, how about we all make an ongoing effort to patronize GoKunming's advertisers and to tell them we found out about them through their ads on the website? Maybe then there would be more resources for the team to deal with the various issues that I and others have been complaining about on the feedback thread and elsewhere.

(For the record, I do not know any of GoKunming's owners or staff and have no connection to them other than my posts under this account.)

@Adrian

I don't think GoKunming should overreact to the recent hubbub. I think that the forums have been running reasonably well since the changes of a few years ago -- most people have been taking the hint from downvotes.

The recent problems boil down to one particularly nasty troll who was oblivious to downvoting and other negative feedback. It seems clear that moderators should respond more quickly and assertively if such a case arises again in the future. At the same time, to paraphrase @ASatiricalBloke, some light trolling can be useful in keeping the conversation bubbling along, so it would probably be counterproductive to let Miyamoto's unique toxicity lead to overly-aggressive moderation.

If I might, I would propose a couple of heuristic tests for the moderators:

1. Would this thread be easy fodder for a local media story about how terrible the laowai are and/or awful things they say about the good people of China?

2. If an expat refers a Chinese acquaintance or student(s) to the GoKunming website, would seeing this thread later the same day cause them to regret doing so?

I don't recall any threads in recent years apart from Miyamoto's that would meet either of these standards, so I think the adjustment in moderation should be fairly circumscribed.

Regarding feedback about the site more generally:

The news articles are always welcome, so I have been a bit disappointed by their scarcity of late. Regarding content, the one about pollution and brain function was the only one in memory that made me scratch my head -- it seemed like it could be relevant to almost any city.

The News Wire section is also helpful in terms of finding Yunnan-related articles that I would never come across on my own. You might want to feature that more prominently, since it's sort of hidden away at the bottom of the home page such that I often forget it's there.

Finally, finding quality resources for services such as plumbers and electricians is generally not easy here, so it would be great if there were a section with listings and reviews -- sort of like an Angie's List (angieslist.com) for Kunming. [Edit: Or maybe just add a relevant category / categories in the 'Listings' section.]

Having said all that, I generally like the site and appreciate the role it plays. Keep up the good work.

Responding to various posts by @alienew:

Regarding your advocacy of J.S. Mill-style principles about the value of understanding others' perspectives through the free exchange of ideas and so forth, I don't disagree with a word of these arguments on their own terms. Nor does there seem to be much objection in principle from other members -- I think you are preaching to the choir.

The question is their domain of applicability.

Given that this is a small expat community in the remote southwest of a nationalistic big-eks era China, it just seems absurd to suppose that free speech principles should apply here without exception. I say "without exception" because I do think we should apply them whenever possible, and that that should be in the overwhelming majority of cases.

You already pay some heed to the local setting in making an exception for the "external Overminders". It doesn't seem such a stretch to extend that to threads which risk needlessly antagonizing local people (e.g., various posts in the "Which Chinese insults do you find most offensive?" thread) or cast the expat community in an exceptionally bad light (e.g., "Beware neo-nazi pornography laowei").

I don't recall any other threads in recent years that would violate the above standards apart from those few by Miyamoto, so it seems like an awful lot of objection is being raised in defense of an exceedingly small and noxious sliver of opinion. (As annoying as James Callis can be, his posts to date would not qualify for moderation under these standards -- in fact, the responses to his invective have been quite measured and thus I think are a credit to forum members.)

There's a Yiddish phrase "a schande vor de goyim", meaning a shame in front of / before Gentiles. That is to say, something done by a Jew that reflects badly on the Jewish community in the eyes of Gentiles. The implication, drawing on millennia of Jews living as "expats" of a sort, is that such things are to be avoided as they harm the community's interests. I think this idea is applicable here.

Yes, I generally agree. I am actually pretty much of a free speech absolutist in a Western setting, and your point is one of the main reasons why. The difference here as I see it is the local context.

@alienew

You said "I think that if you don't like the post then you don't have to respond. Why is that hard? ... nobody is being harmed here and nobody is being forced to participate."

I think this is obtuse. Threads like "Beware neo-Nazi pornography laowei" are in effect hostile propaganda against the expatriate community here, broadcast to all of our Chinese neighbors and colleagues who might happen to read this site. And if you think propaganda doesn't matter, try reading up on Michael Dukakis and Willie Horton (not to mention fascist demagogues, etc.).

You also wrote "Actually, I find it interesting and informative to try to figure out what MM's problem is, seeing that he & some similar people are in fact part of the environment we all have to deal with."

I appreciate your open-mindedness in many cases. But it's crucial to recognize when one is facing a bad actor and react accordingly. Analogy: pacifism can be effective in situations such as those faced by Gandhi & MLK, but it's suicidal when Attila the Hun is at your city gates.

How does this sound? "Actually, I find it interesting and informative to try to figure out what Attila's problem is, seeing that he & some similar people are in fact part of the environment we all have to deal with."