Wonders Of Yunnan Travel

User profile: The Dudeson's

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  • RegisteredJanuary 31, 2012
  • RegionChina
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  • RegisteredJanuary 31, 2012

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Forums > Study > Learning Chinese Business Practices

So business etiquette and practices don't matter much. We talked to potential partners who like western honesty and direct approach and we met customers, who were all traditional.

It's your gut feeling what will succeed in the end.

@OP
I would say hang out with a nice economics professor or student from a good University and treat them for nice meals and meetings. I did that once and I got some really good advice and ideas, one student even helped me to meet potential investors.

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Forums > Study > Learning Chinese Business Practices

@scouser
No, I am not sure.

But it sounds like you are putting it all on one product.

I think he put Myanmar there as an emerging market and as he put Myanmar at the very bottom of the list [there were still 4 more,- depending on the goods you want to produce], I'd say he is on the same page with you.

According to him, the government is welcoming businesses and breaking their legs to get investments, as it means stability in the long run.

Of course it is an ex-socialist country and thus the paper works is tremendous, as is in China.

When I tried to start my fabrics production line, the government bloke in charge of liaison (in Guangzhou) told me that it would take me about a year to get all my paper work ready, and the amount of stuff we had to prepare, for using organic dye, was more than 13 pages.

The biggest issue, in Myanmar is not bureaucracy but stability.
Anyway it is on the list of emerging markets. EU regulations you can go around, for example assembly in another country. And we did the numbers, producing in Thailand, Vietnam, Myanmar or Sri Lanka, including, shipping, E.U. standards of safety and environmental friendly production, red envelopes, shipping it to HK for print and assembly, it was still cheaper than producing in a run-down, wastewater flushing craphole of a factory, where workers breath in fumes all day long and the quality is still below standard.

It shows how serious he was about China's policies to suck foreign companies and investments dry and using shady business practices, whilst still complaining that foreign investors and politicians are not exactly ecstatic when it comes to their failed business-graves in China.

Anyway, I just think that China is too risky without any securities for companies. You have to give up all your secrets and technology, your contracts don't mean anything, IP does only exists for Chinese gov.-firms, and no state of law.
So in short you cannot win in China.

India is the way to go, especially if you have some IP, that is important to your production and state of the art goods.

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Forums > Study > Learning Chinese Business Practices

Let me say it differently, unless you like gambling or high risk investments, it doesn't matter if you know Chinese business manners and practices, or not.

It is all in the hands of your potential partners.

The potential partner, will display his options and judge you not by the business etiquette but what he or she can use against you, to his advantage.

If you are LUCKY and he is pleased and he personally likes you and you plan, he may cooperate and you have a long and prosperous future, until he doesn't need you anymore and drop you, as you have no real power to win against him in a court. So he can act as he pleases.

Keep him happy!

If you give him a hongbao or not, if you invite an official to a banquette, or not, is not up to your try or effort but how much that person feels, thinks of you, or can benefit from you.

If you are a well planned strategist-business planner, China has too many variables and potential obstacles and risk factors. Even if you have a fantastic product, location is great, distribution network is tip-top, quality is amazing and marketing and sales is top (=an USUALLY fail-safe business plan) the chance to fail is still 50% in China (maybe even higher).

That is why many companies, even the top brands are seriously considering moving away from China,

plus a whole bunch of other major problems.

In terms of business etiquette, I saw loads of owners doing everything right, by Chinese business standards, but they still got axed, or didn't get the bid and that is the more upbeat options, as I said, I have seen my contracts been flushed down the toilet and lawyers telling me, that to win the lawyer battles I don't have the connections or budget.

So as Tiger Tiger stated. Set up a company in the family, get investments from the family as well as any other NEEDS for setting up the business. It's still a high risk by international standards, but much lower, as family is tighter than outsiders.

Usually families have a few rich uncles and aunts trying to evade taxes by investing in start ups and new business ventures.

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Forums > Study > Learning Chinese Business Practices

My buddy told me while working for the EUCC in Beijing, that the unofficial policy for investor recommendation is, NEVER DO BUSINESS IN CHINA.

According to him, he says, they recommend to look into other markets, such as Vietnam, India, Brazil, and Myanmar.

And from my own experience of 5 different forced partnerships and co-operations, who got sabotaged, ruined or just straight stolen, I can only emphasize it.

p.s. I am not talking about opening a food shop, diner or mixian place.
I mean production lines, educations, consulting and design businesses in mid-level. Too big to operate alone as foreign entity, and too small for multi-national corporations.

From what I hear, India is the sh*t, these day. Corruption is cheaper there and actual laws to stick with, you can even win a lawsuit against a local....sounds like luxury to me.

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Forums > Food & Drink > Metro Store South open.

Metro cards work in China nationwide and once, staff even let me in

European store with my card, but I couldn't get some of the billing documents (for obvious reasons VAT, and other taxes)and I dunno if it was just a nice bloke, or if you have access to all stores E.U. wide. Anyway, we got the items we needed. ;)

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What you are talking about vicar, and alien are so called gateway drugs.

Most gateway drugs must have a strong physical addiction potential, or because they are extremely easy to get. And most important it depends on when you are starting with substances which could lead to addiction.
And then number one gateway drug[s] are alcohol and tobacco.

As most kids experiment with these two early on, then the way is paved.

Weed comes in [usually] at a later age, at which you should have already physically and psychologically learned, how to say no.

Otherwise, how is it that states with open cannabis laws, have a lower addiction rate for harder drugs?

In my opinion alcohol and nicotine are the worst of all drugs and gateway drugs.

If you are talking crime, then legalizing the ones that do less harm than the legal drugs, is a necessary step.

Tax alcohol 300%, tobacco 800% and state grown cannabis, peyote, mushrooms at Value Added Tax and 300% if it's blended in with tobacco. And you will see, less barfights, domestic violence, rape, murder, drug sales, vs. increases in consumption of cartoons and animations, boosting the snacks industry, music awareness, camping, et cetera. Lol

Alcohol is a nerve toxin. THC isn't.

In general people wanna get high, always get high.

Is there any person ever getting robbed for weed? The purse snatching story is more in the line of alcohol, meth or crack.

The best way is to stay away form any substances that alter your state of mind, ...if you can.

War on drugs has always failed and will always fail.
Humans are crazy about getting high, for whatever reasons.

It's just about choosing your drug.

Sport, coffee, tea, alcohol, chocolate, tobacco, sex, talking crap in forums and chat lines, there is nothing people can't get addicted to.

And people will always get high if they want to.

So decriminalizing, prevention, education is the way to go.
State controlled outlets for drugs, addicts get free and clean needles, and check ups for typical drug fiend diseases.

Holland has worked fine, and so are Canada, and most of the states in the US, as far as you can say over the short period of time.

The judicial system get's relieved over something it cannot stop anyway.
Taking care of the hard drug users and addicts, and education and prevention from the taxes on legal drugs, and you have a good chance to succeed.

China is playing USA in the 1980's, a few crop incentives won't help, while people are being thrown in jail over smoking a bit of pot, or taking XTC. But hopefully they will see the stupidity of it.

@vicar
It's incorrect weed or soft drugs don't lead to addiction or demand for harder drugs.
It's an individual problem, some people take heroin, once and never feel like taking drugs again. Some drink a few drinks and soon are hitting it hard.

There is no rule or solution for personal addiction.

Great! Thanks for putting it up.

Do they also accept scooter and e-bike parts?

I mean not through Salvador, perhaps. I guess they wouldn't like their café to be an 'old scooter storage'.

But since every idiot is hailing Tesla's and e-mobility, and forgetting that they riding toxic waste and mountains of carbon fumes around, it would be worth knowing how to at least get rid of the old batteries and e-parts,....-properly!

I don't have much sympathy for the shop owners. I agree with Haali, Mike and Tiger.

They sell cheap taobao, crap for up to 500% its value, most stuff has nothing to do with Lijiang and 5 drum shops on 200meters of road is a bit overkill.

None of the stuff ever sold in China, is by customer demand. Some Dongbei bloke, thinks Lijiang needs fake African drums, and shiny toy drones, so they open 60 shops in the old town, because they have money. And think the more annoying, loud and screamy advertisement you have the more people buy.

All others investors, due to lack of creativity, will open shops with the exact same product, in 30 shops of their own, in Chinese, then it's called cultural preservation. No shop owner in Lijiang is local. The locals all rent out, cause they can make tons of money. They don't give a crap. If you own property in the old town, you are rich.

Lijiang and Dali = greed, from all sides.

The tourists buy the crap that is offered, cos they have no idea, what is local culture....hence China not having any real culture left, after the Revolution....

So welcome to Yunnan Disneyland.

For all I care, charge 500RMB each time you enter the old town, 1000RMB if you must.
Let the shops go out of business, I rather see a run down but original old town, than that freak show.

I don't go there anyway, I rather go to small village guesthouses, in the area, and spend my money on hiking, good local food and relaxation, rather then squeezing through million of tourists, on roads that are barely big enough to let squirrels pass.

Lijiang and Dali were once really beautiful spots. Now they are just money laundering and cash mills. The real China is never found in touristy old town.

@scally
The article is great and thanks for putting it back into the view of the public. Yeah that girl and her lawyer, really have balls, to go against the people convicting her.

But these people don't like to be messed with. They will probably put her against bars again.

But I hope they also try to find the murderer, otherwise there is still a babykiller on the loose. See Steven Avery.

Reviews

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Disgusting!..Absolutely Disgusting!

We were sick the whole night being dumb enough to eat there.

Plastic flavor, far overpriced 54 kuai for the 2 of the smallest Burger and fries, which were insultingly small for "BIG" fries.

If there were more than 15 fries in there, I would be surprised.
Chicken Burger was almost raw and overloaded with mayonnaise and flavoring.

The whopper tasted like nothing but onion and artificial flavoring.
Burger bun like a puffy ...I don't even know what to compare it to.
What a waste of time and money.

I would almost say it was the worst food i had in the last ten years. Especially having mud-butt and throwing up all night.

At least McD and KFC don't advertise quality and other nonsense, although equally rubbish.

Just terrible!

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Sorry this probably belongs into the forum section...But just to clarify and thanks to overrated reviews I went to CC with high expectations to get some delicacies, I wanted to surprise my wife with a delicacy and there was absolutely nothing that Parkson, Metro or Carrefour don't have.I don't like Chorizo so there has to be more than just that to make me give 5 stars.Plus I already gave them 3 stars, for the very positive things I experienced.There are no products that other shops don't offer, except if their products are home made but I didn't see any labels stating it's organic or home made.For the cold cuts I found as well as the cheeses are all (or most) available at other stores.I didn't know that they make sandwiches and I will give that a try especially knowing that Sandra is involved in the making which usually leads to a yummy tummy.But again as delicacy shop it's very unimpressive and as stated before I believe it will get better. So I am not bashing it but trying to help the owners to give some ideas not just applause because I like Sandra's food...which I do.So I recommend to give realistic reviews. 5 stars just because you like one item there will just disappoint potential CC patrons that are not going for Sandwiches or Chorizo.It's a shop with tons of potential and I will come back to try the Sandwich and see what else they will have in future. But giving more than 3 stars for what I saw wouldn't be fair.

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I went there and all the fake Ikea (furniture) items were almost twice as much as the originals at Ikea. The fixing guys are good but as mentioned above at least need a week or two to drill 4 holes in the wall.

The little knick knacks are ok and reasonably priced. For real furniture, I wouldn't buy there. Better and cheaper options available. But good for cheap and nice decorations and accessories.

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I practiced there for a few weeks but unforntunately I had to stop, due to relocation.
It's a good school but what I didn't like was the Martial Arts blend between traditional kungfu and modern wushu, similar to the Henan one.
But I still like it for the good exercise, staff and classmates.

I am not sure if there are actually some real kungfu monks, so if you are looking for the full martial package, you might get disappointed, as almost anywhere in China.

Be aware that practice is not in the temple but in a kungfu school one block away

That said, it is in my opinion the best choice in Kunming to practice the closest to real martial arts (besides taiji). And it's very reasonably priced.