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Forums > Study > Learning Chinese Business Practices

So business etiquette and practices don't matter much. We talked to potential partners who like western honesty and direct approach and we met customers, who were all traditional.

It's your gut feeling what will succeed in the end.

@OP
I would say hang out with a nice economics professor or student from a good University and treat them for nice meals and meetings. I did that once and I got some really good advice and ideas, one student even helped me to meet potential investors.

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Forums > Study > Learning Chinese Business Practices

@scouser
No, I am not sure.

But it sounds like you are putting it all on one product.

I think he put Myanmar there as an emerging market and as he put Myanmar at the very bottom of the list [there were still 4 more,- depending on the goods you want to produce], I'd say he is on the same page with you.

According to him, the government is welcoming businesses and breaking their legs to get investments, as it means stability in the long run.

Of course it is an ex-socialist country and thus the paper works is tremendous, as is in China.

When I tried to start my fabrics production line, the government bloke in charge of liaison (in Guangzhou) told me that it would take me about a year to get all my paper work ready, and the amount of stuff we had to prepare, for using organic dye, was more than 13 pages.

The biggest issue, in Myanmar is not bureaucracy but stability.
Anyway it is on the list of emerging markets. EU regulations you can go around, for example assembly in another country. And we did the numbers, producing in Thailand, Vietnam, Myanmar or Sri Lanka, including, shipping, E.U. standards of safety and environmental friendly production, red envelopes, shipping it to HK for print and assembly, it was still cheaper than producing in a run-down, wastewater flushing craphole of a factory, where workers breath in fumes all day long and the quality is still below standard.

It shows how serious he was about China's policies to suck foreign companies and investments dry and using shady business practices, whilst still complaining that foreign investors and politicians are not exactly ecstatic when it comes to their failed business-graves in China.

Anyway, I just think that China is too risky without any securities for companies. You have to give up all your secrets and technology, your contracts don't mean anything, IP does only exists for Chinese gov.-firms, and no state of law.
So in short you cannot win in China.

India is the way to go, especially if you have some IP, that is important to your production and state of the art goods.

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Forums > Study > Learning Chinese Business Practices

Let me say it differently, unless you like gambling or high risk investments, it doesn't matter if you know Chinese business manners and practices, or not.

It is all in the hands of your potential partners.

The potential partner, will display his options and judge you not by the business etiquette but what he or she can use against you, to his advantage.

If you are LUCKY and he is pleased and he personally likes you and you plan, he may cooperate and you have a long and prosperous future, until he doesn't need you anymore and drop you, as you have no real power to win against him in a court. So he can act as he pleases.

Keep him happy!

If you give him a hongbao or not, if you invite an official to a banquette, or not, is not up to your try or effort but how much that person feels, thinks of you, or can benefit from you.

If you are a well planned strategist-business planner, China has too many variables and potential obstacles and risk factors. Even if you have a fantastic product, location is great, distribution network is tip-top, quality is amazing and marketing and sales is top (=an USUALLY fail-safe business plan) the chance to fail is still 50% in China (maybe even higher).

That is why many companies, even the top brands are seriously considering moving away from China,

plus a whole bunch of other major problems.

In terms of business etiquette, I saw loads of owners doing everything right, by Chinese business standards, but they still got axed, or didn't get the bid and that is the more upbeat options, as I said, I have seen my contracts been flushed down the toilet and lawyers telling me, that to win the lawyer battles I don't have the connections or budget.

So as Tiger Tiger stated. Set up a company in the family, get investments from the family as well as any other NEEDS for setting up the business. It's still a high risk by international standards, but much lower, as family is tighter than outsiders.

Usually families have a few rich uncles and aunts trying to evade taxes by investing in start ups and new business ventures.

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Forums > Study > Learning Chinese Business Practices

My buddy told me while working for the EUCC in Beijing, that the unofficial policy for investor recommendation is, NEVER DO BUSINESS IN CHINA.

According to him, he says, they recommend to look into other markets, such as Vietnam, India, Brazil, and Myanmar.

And from my own experience of 5 different forced partnerships and co-operations, who got sabotaged, ruined or just straight stolen, I can only emphasize it.

p.s. I am not talking about opening a food shop, diner or mixian place.
I mean production lines, educations, consulting and design businesses in mid-level. Too big to operate alone as foreign entity, and too small for multi-national corporations.

From what I hear, India is the sh*t, these day. Corruption is cheaper there and actual laws to stick with, you can even win a lawsuit against a local....sounds like luxury to me.

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Forums > Food & Drink > Metro Store South open.

Metro cards work in China nationwide and once, staff even let me in

European store with my card, but I couldn't get some of the billing documents (for obvious reasons VAT, and other taxes)and I dunno if it was just a nice bloke, or if you have access to all stores E.U. wide. Anyway, we got the items we needed. ;)

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@alien

If done right, it can help the trees.

Some old garden hacks even say, once dead tree, will have stronger branches and grow better fruits and better canopies.

But if their water capillaries are cut,or destroyed due to the water expansion, -from the ice or frost, they are gone.

You are right, usually farmers or gardeners with lots of experience even get surprised sometimes what tree or plant, once written off.... came back beautifully.
But let's be honest most of those gardening blokes don't know anything. No blame, they are cheap farmers hired, to do whatever their leader orders them to do.

And there is the problem, that we have complete morons running the watering and gardening in Kunming. I asked one of the fore workers, once what sort of flower bush this is. He had actually no clue, and ordered his team to spray it for 5 minutes. A few weeks later, it was dead.

human poop water isn't harmful for the plant, necessarily but it's harmful for humans and it can lead to unwanted growth and even kill a plant. If you have a garden, pee once a day on a small tree or bush and see what happens.

The sewage water is from a closed water cycle, and it won't come back unless it rains.

Sometimes the stupidity of Kunming's city management is still surprising me. Although it's funny sometimes.

The stuff I mentioned is something anyone, who ever planted more than one flower or plant, knows. And should know.

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I saw it's a monthly meet up again. i wish i could come today. i really want to check it out. who doesn't like to discuss beer while having a beer?

Darryl,
I apologize, getting you and your homebrewing society wrong. And I thank you for being out there, doing all this non profit. I hope that one day you will make good money from it. And spread the good word and work even better.
As the German sayings go:
"Hopfen und Malz, Gott erhalt's"

"Soll durch meinem frommen Segen, der Braumeister haben,ein langes Leben."

I totally agree with your idea about beers and the quality and perception of a good beer.

I hope I can make it another time.
Sorry, for me,being ignorant.

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the purity law doesn't restrict variety at all. it just defines the main ingredients.

most belgium beers are added with something. many non beligiums referr to it as headache additives. fruit flavors, etc. anyone who ever had 3 glasses of vedett(or hoegaarden) vs. 3 glasses of german wheat beer,knows what i am talking about.
don.t get me wrong, flavor wise i love belgium beer, but i prefer german beer because it doesn.t make you feel bad in low doses.

sounds like the homebrewing guy makes quite good money from the homebrewing, especially as he is just starting his network and fees, which i see rising very soon, to get to his ingredients, of which he gets commissions and so on.

germany probably still is home to the vastest varieties of beers. e.g. obergaerig, untergaerig,
wheat,dark wheat,koelsch,alt,bockbier,dark bockbier,pils=lager, berliner weisse, franken alt, nordisches herbes pils(my favourite), meet(german pronunciation), honig bier, fruchtbier, etc...
i am not even trying to unclude any varieties adding juices, soda and flavors, like maibowle...and such...

as i said it.s not a competition, plus germany has thousands if microbreweries, and i never met any german claiming germans to have the best beer in the world.

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...-"that the Germans do it best "

What is this obsessive-German-beer bashing?
No German would ever insist that Germany has the best beer or such nonsense.

The Bad Monkey guys in their interviews, did it too?

Must be some kind of professional jealousy, I tried the Monkey's Wheat beer a few month back, and special flavor, and preferences, but that was hardly a beer, taste went from old, under carbonated Fanta with a shot of Chinese Baijiu! It was terrible and they still charged for this.
They had great beers in the past but, that fluid it disgusting.

Seeing them mocking other brewers or countries, while producing that sounds ridiculous.
Germany has cheap high quality beer, and a purity regulation that one must keep, if you want to put it on your label, tr call it a beer. And that's about it. Maybe that German beer is quite bitter [in my favor]

What Germany has, though, is a huge variety of different flavors and varieties.

But believe it or not, a lot of Microbreweries and home-brewers.

About beer/food pairing, in terms of fish, I can see how it could work but beer to seafood and fish, should be more of an emergency solution. A proper wine compliments the special seafood flavor more, than any beer.

But as I said I had beer with shrimp dishes and it went o.k. if they are malty, enough.

Reviews

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Sorry this probably belongs into the forum section...But just to clarify and thanks to overrated reviews I went to CC with high expectations to get some delicacies, I wanted to surprise my wife with a delicacy and there was absolutely nothing that Parkson, Metro or Carrefour don't have.I don't like Chorizo so there has to be more than just that to make me give 5 stars.Plus I already gave them 3 stars, for the very positive things I experienced.There are no products that other shops don't offer, except if their products are home made but I didn't see any labels stating it's organic or home made.For the cold cuts I found as well as the cheeses are all (or most) available at other stores.I didn't know that they make sandwiches and I will give that a try especially knowing that Sandra is involved in the making which usually leads to a yummy tummy.But again as delicacy shop it's very unimpressive and as stated before I believe it will get better. So I am not bashing it but trying to help the owners to give some ideas not just applause because I like Sandra's food...which I do.So I recommend to give realistic reviews. 5 stars just because you like one item there will just disappoint potential CC patrons that are not going for Sandwiches or Chorizo.It's a shop with tons of potential and I will come back to try the Sandwich and see what else they will have in future. But giving more than 3 stars for what I saw wouldn't be fair.

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I went there and all the fake Ikea (furniture) items were almost twice as much as the originals at Ikea. The fixing guys are good but as mentioned above at least need a week or two to drill 4 holes in the wall.

The little knick knacks are ok and reasonably priced. For real furniture, I wouldn't buy there. Better and cheaper options available. But good for cheap and nice decorations and accessories.

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I practiced there for a few weeks but unforntunately I had to stop, due to relocation.
It's a good school but what I didn't like was the Martial Arts blend between traditional kungfu and modern wushu, similar to the Henan one.
But I still like it for the good exercise, staff and classmates.

I am not sure if there are actually some real kungfu monks, so if you are looking for the full martial package, you might get disappointed, as almost anywhere in China.

Be aware that practice is not in the temple but in a kungfu school one block away

That said, it is in my opinion the best choice in Kunming to practice the closest to real martial arts (besides taiji). And it's very reasonably priced.