and might I add - a truly @#$% way to treat a vet (any vet for that matter). I suspect a class action lawsuit would get some attention - suggest you find an incredibly evil attorney - the most evil attorneys are in California - recommend Gloria Allred to start with (she's a recognized force - scares the blood out of most normal people). For class action - she might take the case pro-bono...doesn't hurt to ask.

Good Idea!!
What happened to coffee?

Cheers - - JJ

JJ - sorry - phone did a Lazarus (died, then miraculously came back to life). SMS you after it finishes the sync process.

JJ - sorry - phone did a Lazarus (died, then miraculously came back to life). SMS you after it finishes the sync process.

JJ - sorry - phone did a Lazarus (died, then miraculously came back to life). SMS you after it finishes the sync process.

I don't get it;

JJ, you were in the service long enough to know that this kind of Bureaucratic BS is the SOP for darn near the whole federal govt.!
I'm only surprised that you are surprised!

The US Embassies... an easy target to slag.
I've had my ups and downs with the embassies, but I would like to agree with the people who pointed out that it's not just the US, it's across the board. And the worst ones are either the countries everyone wants to go to, or the countries that no one wants to go to.

There's no excuse for the US immigration policy being all mixed up, backwards, and self-defeating. Implementing that policy is understandably going to upset everyone who must work with it.

Sound like an apologist for the fed. gov. don't I? wow... that's scary.

Hello everyone. I have read all the posts and I hope everyone can get some solutions to their visa problems. Frankly I feel better after reading this. I am happy to know I am not the only one who is having problems getting a visa for my Chinese wife. We have applied 3 times for a travel visa. The first two times we were not married. The third time we were married. I have read a lot of forums on this topic and it seems that most of you are correct. I have only dealt with the Chengdu consul. Chengdu is has a small foreign community so I have heard some similar stories from them on this issue. Most of them feel that the Chengdu consulate is very random in their decisions. I was very angry the first time and stormed in their like a raging lunatic. I cornered the guy and asked him what specifically does my wife have to do in order to get an approval. Of course, he told me that he can't discus the application with anyone other than the applicant. I cornered him and said "If I have these items A-Z" would you approve me?" Items A-Z are items that at the time my wife provided. He said he would approve me if it were him. We applied two additional times and were rejected. Each time we had new information. Like some of the other forums have already stated, the interviewer didn't not even look at the new information. After reading a bunch of forums and documents, which to me is such a waste of valuable time, I found that you must prove yourself innocent.

One huge difference between the American consulate and British is that the British consulate actually tells you specifically what you need to do if you are rejected. The American consulate gives a nondescript form about how the applicant has not provided sufficient information allowing for a visa.

I have also heard about a petition that was signed, specifically against the Chengdu consulate. I have not found it, but if I do I will post it here.
I wanted to change this forum a bit to help others and also help us in getting the right things in order, so it makes if extremely difficult for them to say "no". I do plan on applying for the fourth time. The rejection form does say you can reapply if you have new information. I wanted to tell others here what things I have provided, to give you a real idea on the crazy amount of work you have to do. 1. ds-160 online application. I have a couple questions on this one, even though I have filled it out four times. No. 1: translating things form Chinese to English, such as addresses. You can use google translate, however that is really an inaccurate tool. Simple things like job title, correct addresses, middle school, high school, university, and education stuff. This stuff has been driving me batty. The consulate wants to be specific, but how can you really translate this stuff. Any advice on this would be great. No. 2: what the hell is a telecode? I looked it up, but it seems that this is basically your foreign language name represented by 4 numbers. I found this

The new version includes a new question: "Telecode Name Used."

According to the Department:

"Telecodes (also known as 'standard telegraphic codes,' 'Chinese telegraph

codes,' and 'Chinese commercial codes') are an older system used to

represent characters, in which the most commonly used characters were

assigned a unique four-digit number. ...Telecodes are not widely used

anymore except in certain places such as Hong Kong and Macau, where they

still appear on identity cards." 9 FAM Appendix F, 505.1 (last publicly

available version of August 2009). I also found this apps.chasedream.com/chinese-commercial-code/default.aspx I put in my wife's name in Chinese to see if it works. I think I answer this question "no" since my wife is from the mainland. Any ideas? No. 3: passport book number? Everything I have found says that China does not have this. I hope I am right on this one. No. 4: Who is paying for you trip? I have heard different things on this. I have tried self and other person, but didn't work for me. I second time I put money into my wife bank account, printed a receipt showing funds were there. The interviewer didn't even look at the bank document. I was wondering what people out there are hearing and saying on this. I have heard mixed reviews on the how important these answers are. I am not sure why they have rejected my wife or any of you for that matter. My wife also belongs to the Communist Party, because she works for the government as a tax investigator. I have been told that could be the major reason why she was rejected. She only joined it, because she had to in order to get and keep her job. She isn't involved in any flag burnings or any other odd things that I know of.:)
In addition I have provided the following documents for the interview:
1. picture album of our family
2. bank statements for me and my wife
3. invitation letter from my mother to my wife
4. My mother's taxes, deed to her home, and social security card
5. My taxes, copy of my US visa, social security card.
6. My job here in China, resume, and my future job schedule (stamped by my company). Also my visa type: English teacher.
7. copy of my expat cert
8. 3 week schedule of events for the US visit by day
9. letter of confidence from the Chinese government about my wife and her job
10. my wife's two property deeds
11. letter from my wife's parents saying that she is their daughter
12. my wife's family tree, which includes mother, father, daughter, brother,and two sisters.
13. marriage license to me and a copy of our Chinese marriage cert
14. a letter to the consulate from both my mother and me stating our responsibilities and duties.
15. my birth certificate and property deed in the US
16. my wife and I countless emails all printed, before I came to China.
17. finally the underwear and a picture of our kitchen sink.
I am sorry for such a long post. I hope some of you can comment and help with any suggestions. Thanks a ton.

@Jesse888
Sorry - couldn't resist - your approach is logical and methodical - but you missed the key point to the US Consulate and US Embassy business practices. They randomly reject applications. The process they allude to - illusion and fraud. Trying to understand a random fraudulent insane process is akin to attempting to reason logically with an insane person, a rock, a clump of dirt, pile of sh...you get the point.

To their credit, the Chengdu consulate does deign occasional junkets to provide services (for which we must usually pay ludicrous fees) to we orphaned US Expats in Kunming - but aside from that - their dubious value is more as a form of catastrophic insurance for american services - but their primary function is probably more as a spying intelligence gathering unit for the US State Dept aka CIA/NSA, recruiting local operatives, seeding sleepers.

Just to highlight precisely how insane the agency you're dealing with is - as US citizens - we have to pay for any government services we receive from the US Dept of State - which are funded out of taxpayer dollars. Example - add pages to our passport - USD 60 (last time I checked - reference travel.state.gov/passport/fees/fees_837.html). Now - bear in mind that our government recently announced they've piped over roughly USD19 billion spent to stabilize Afghanistan over the last 10 years (reference: aw shucks - just google it - it's too depressing, frustrating, and severely infuriating for me to think about it)...and that's JUST Afghanistan. We haven't included Iraq or any of a myriad of other countries to which the US sends our tax dollars for FREE.

Now, when I look at my government GIVING away USD 19 BILLION and then charging me USD 60 to glue some paper inside my passport - one can only conclude that the US government is ludicrously insane (as are the taxpayers) - either that - or we expats are victims of gross fraud, waste, abuse - and political sodomy.

So your logic is akin to trying to get your wife's visa approved by inserting their usurious non-refundable fees into a vegas slot machine and expecting the Jackpot on the first try. The process - as JJ noted - there IS NO PROCESS - that's just US consulate/embassy/state dept propaganda manure. The true process is you keep putting money into the consulate's visa application slot machine, jumping through random hoops like a trained yippy dog - to their immense sadistic amusement, until you are randomly approved - all the while believing you're participating in a sane, mature, responsible, rational, fair process.

HELLO...HELLO..

If you really want to be an asshole (get some back) try to file a class action Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request on WHY visa applications are rejected - itemize the list. There is NO known paper trail on a rejection, only vague verbally issued instructions - "re-apply with NEW information and pay the usurious fees again" - WHAT new information - vague finger pointing, more government double speak - classical Monty Python skit - except this is real life and you're out real money. FRAUD.

JJ was upset, because he believes he was blatantly defrauded - and this consulate process - as dictated by the US Dept of State - is blatantly yet - legally fraudulent government business practices.

To get around this - join a tour group. You're virtually guaranteed visa success. Then jump the tour like an illegal alien or some other pernicious criminal cum terrorist. Assuming they catch you (they always catch innocent people - crappy record on criminals though) - they'll put you in detention (free room & board), deport you and identify you as an undesirable and ban you from returning for a few years to life. The downside to this - they RANDOMLY accuse you of being a terrorist and put you into the rendition program - you'll be whisked off to some unknown secret government jail (supported by our tax dollars) and legally tortured for several years, until you confess to some random terrorist activity that they've assigned to you, to fill their government quotas of solving terrorist acts.

To deal with the US government - especially the Chengdu consulate - you must first understand they're insane. They don't know they're insane - therefore they are - catch 22. To deal with insane people, you must be equally and reciprocally insane. I suggest watching some Monty Python skits for pointers on bureaucratic insanity and remember this - the people you're dealing with behave with impunity - they have absolutely no responsibility or accountability for their actions. They're accountable to no-one.

Based on this - you might think - ok ... guanxi - I'll try the "be nice, friendly, and wretchedly ingratiating" approach - but they're insane - doesn't matter what you do - THERE IS NO TRUE PROCESS - it's random. No guidelines, no manuals, no process, no feedback, no accountability - utter, absolute, and unadulterated 100% pure male bovine manure. No - I take that back. Manure has value as fertilizer and sadistic value for naughty little boys with far too much time on their hands - eg manure fights, rolling in manure with your buddies to get a rise out of your mom when you come home, sibs, friends, etc Cool, memorable, harmless but incredibly gross stuff like that.

Let's use the word VOMIT instead of manure. Never heard of VOMIT having a recyclable value such as fertilizer or even pig feed - but one never knows...

And just to plug that final nail in the coffin - the US Department of State - they call themselves the State Department because the actual moniker is DoS - which in the internet world - means Denial of Service (attack).

JJ is torqued not because of the fraud - but because he served his country - put himself in harm's way (and we won't talk about the less pleasant things involved with being a combat veteran). JJ's torqued because he did all this just so that some prick can have the privilege of sodomizing him in his retirement. Meritorious service to one's country counts as nothing in today's USA.

If you want proof of that - watch what happens when all those middle east vets return home to no jobs, no income, no health benefits. The US government lied for decades on the effects of the defoliant Agent Orange, used extensively throughout Vietnam....Ah..I digress. We taxpayers are sadly becoming more and more combative with our alleged electorate.

@laotou

It seems the US government is functioning separately from the the US citizens in nearly every aspect of life. While we superficially seem to choose our "elected officials", who make promises that rarely materialize, but most of the VOMITS, as you so creatively called them, are appointee by those we elect to office every 4 years. Once in office, they all behave like college kids in a fraternity club, rather than getting down to the business of serving their constituents.

I think we NEED to figure out a way to remind all of our government officials (from a simple clerk to the top post) that our government must be a "GOVERNMENT OF THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE AND FOR THE PEOPLE" as noted in Abraham Lincoln's Gettysburg Address. That's the BASIC PREMISES AND PROPER CONDUCT OF GOVERNMENT.

@aiyaryarr
We're all open to suggestions - voting isn't working, as evidenced by the OWS and the Tea Party movements. The US government legalized political corruption (PACs, Lobbyists, etc) just like they legalized torture. Give it a name and legally define it as "not torture". Obama obviously fast-tracked Solyndra's USD 550+ million federal government guaranteed loan - which they promptly spent in 12 months, then declared bankruptcy - blaming China for their woes. Solyndra had previously donated heavily to one of Obama's PACs or campaigns. Lobby and PAC groups - pimping out the presidency.

Combative political parties that prioritize their respective agendas above the welfare of the people they've been entrusted to represent.

And the worst corruption of all - an apathetic, lazy, negligent, selfish, self serving voting populace.

Frustration at home is finally beginning to boil. TSA, Homeland Security, Financial Crisis, government bailouts, Solyndra, out of control drug abuse (USD 40 BILLION+ per year, just piping into Mexico) - all with no end in sight.

Law enforcement attaching GPS trackers to our vehicles without court orders (violations of invasion of privacy laws). And my favorite - the US State Dept charging US citizens for fees while telling us they have no money (while piping BILLIONS to foreign countries).

Personal wars started by US presidents because someone stole their family oil wells - we all know what happened - but nobody wants to put it on the table - oh - and we essentially trained all those terrorists who we're now trying to hunt down and kill, kidnap, and torture into telling us whom else should we hunt down, kidnap, and torture (all in violation of Geneva conventions on human rights, treatment of prisoners of war, etc). We hold them in pseudo-military jails - if they're lucky - oh - and we legalized torture, so it's not called torture anymore - we gave it a legalized name, said it's "not" torture, just "aggressive" interrogation (for years).

Manure. I don't particularly mind that the USA does these things to keep America strong and free - it just irks me that they try to lie about it in public. Lying, negligence, and apathy - root causes of terminal dynastic cancers.

NEUROTIC
If we didn't care, we wouldn't whine.