Keats School


Transferring cash out of China

Ishmael (462 posts) • 0

What is the legal position of bitcoin and bitcoin transfers out of China, anyway? I would imagine it is used by large-scale greedheads, among others who may just wish to avoid the damn banks - but are they breaking laws?

JanJal (1051 posts) • 0

It is obviously illegal, because China's currency exchange regime is controlled by state on grounds of national sovereignty and financial stability, and bypassing those mechanisms undermines all of that.

cloudtrapezer (756 posts) • 0

I don't think it's obvious that it's illegal. If you check on the latest news on the internet it seems a grey area. There were initially no regulations, then a clampdown, and now some commentators are predicting liberalization.

Ishmael (462 posts) • +2

Back when bitcoin was being invented a former foreign resident of Kunming explained to me that it was a great idea because it would empower the poor by allowing anyone with a cellphone around the world to avoid bank accounts and transaction fees etc. and thus works against the domination of the economy, globally and nationally, by banks and financial institutions. I don't understand bitcoin to this day but I have a feeling that it doesn't, in fact, empower poor people and perhaps works against their interests, but I have no idea how this compares with the above-stated domination.
My impression is that they are both simply different ways to screw a cat.

JanJal (1051 posts) • +1

China may well liberalize digital currencies that operate within it's own (tightly controlled) financial system, but it can not liberalize movement of money in and out of country via digital currencies until it can also liberalize moving money via traditional systems.

And that will not happen for long, long time.

The expected restrictions that China has to put on it's own digital currencies will negate almost all the argued benefits of using such currencies.

They wouldn't be more than glorified version of WeChat wallet or AliPay. I don't see any sense business-wise to go into that competition anymore. Even if these two launch some other kind of digital currency, it might just undermine what they already have with their payment platforms.

Elsewhere in world central banks moderate financial systems and subsequently banks from the outside with methods such as changing their own interest rates.

But in China most of the banks are owned by the state, and working against domination of those banks would be working against domination of the state. No no, not here.

beastlord (8 posts) • 0

Look at this article published just two months ago:[...]

It basically says Bitcoin is not illegal to transfer from person to person.

I personally use Bitcoin regularly. I've done over 50 trades for more than 1 million cny. There are no limits to how much you can send in/out the country.

If you don't like the BTC price flunctuation or don't trust the secureness of your exchange, then immediately transfer it from your BTC wallet into your bank account once you receive it.

If you are worried about being ripped of when exchanging with someone on localbitcoins/paxful then make sure they have at least 1 year reputation with 99%+ positive ratings. The site also uses an escrow system to ensure no one runs away with the money. Out of my 50+ trades, I have encountered 0 issues.

I've been ripped off more using

actual real money in a store.

JanJal (1051 posts) • 0

The article states that legally China considers bitcoin a digital property. You can hold on to it, transfer it to other people (home and abroad), even mine it.

But you cannot legally convert RMB into bitcoin or bitcoin to RMB, which makes it illegal to use it to transfer fiat cash across border.

EddyC (36 posts) • -1

Thank you beastlord for your inputs.

In a dark room full of musical chairs where participants are surveyed by hidden cameras, best know your backdoor(s) and exit points in both senses of the word. Not just the obvious front door of BoC where gatekeepers stand guard.

Legalities, and players who legislate and enforce them, can be a malleable concept in times of geopolitical fluctuations.

Too many technophobes chime in like experts, in areas their hands-on CX is closer to nil.

Ishmael (462 posts) • -2

True, Eddy, but what word above has 2 senses?
And note that it was not technophobes who put hidden cameras up everywhere.
I'm an expert at carrying cash in an inside pocket - makes finding the right door simple and avoids your (metaphorical) camera: the spiderweb of electronic tracking devices that can connect your tax records and present location to the date of your last haircut, your present wechat comment, your brand of soap etc. - which really does operate in a dark room.
Technophobia? Maybe this whole thread is technophobia - but it's not irrational paranoia. Anyway, you can't tell me the technophiles are innocent - for some inane bit of candy they carelessly, blindly and gleefully jump into any electronic spiderweb, multiplying the control and power of the spiders and the assholes who proudly refer to themselves as, and can lergitimately be accused of being, 'players'.

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