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GoKunming feedback...

ASatiricalBloke (103 posts) • 0

Your argument is pure conjecture. Please cite examples of where "newbies" were discouraged by down votes. You might as well say the background color used by GoKunming discourages participation and that red has been scientifically proven to incite people into action, therefor, GoKunming needs to change their background color to red.

As for "mindful" contributors like herenow, I don't see any signs that he has been effectively discouraged, in fact, 90% of his posts have been made in the last month or so. And he specifically said, "When I see how trigger-happy people are with downvoting in various cases lately, it makes me inclined to discount or ignore such feedback with regard to my own posts", in other words he now ignores any down votes to his posts and feels free to express whatever he wishes.

As I originally said in my now altered previous post, I couldn't careless about whether or not there is a voting system, but I am irritated by weak and insincere arguments.

Let's assume for a minute that down voting is done away with, what is your solution for managing and deterring trolls and offensive posts without imposing "psychological censorship"?

At the end of the day, all this verbage is a lot to do about nothing. It's easy to critic but very difficult to come up with a better solution.

Dazzer (2800 posts) • 0

psychological censorship just sounds like another bs term mate. what about psychological affrontary from the nasty posts, eh?

ASatiricalBloke (103 posts) • +1

Lol, any attempts at moderation by non-moderators is itself adding to the noise and veering off topic. This is a classic scenario of where down voting is useful.

And to address the concern that I'm not providing feedback, I'll repeat my feedback again, only more succinctly. I am not for getting rid of the down votes simply because it will not improve things, so why commit the resources to change the website. you don't get an appendectomy simply because you have an appendix.

BTW, here is the OP:
"Here's the place to put critiques (or compliments), discuss or vent about all things GoKunming."

And so it would seem that this is "the place" to go.

alienew (423 posts) • +2

My suggestion for downvotes stands - they're appropriate when somebody's simply not talking about the thread.
But for god's sake, either downvote or don't, but talk about something more interesting.

bilingualexpat (220 posts) • -1

@ASB

I’ve compiled five academic research papers revealing the flaws of down-votes. Findings are summarized in bullet points for easy reading. Literature download link provided via WeTransfer for each.

In case their scientific merits are in question. These academic research papers are conducted/written by a team of postdoctoral scholars in computer science from Stanford University, in collaboration with Cornell University or Max Planck Institute. Their data-driven research via machine learning algorithms is supported and funded by their Stanford Graduate Fellowship and a Google Faculty Research Award, in cooperation with Disqus, Twitter, among many major commenting systems.

Studies such as these hark back to why major social sites across the field in the U.S. and China have abandoned the down-voting system, particularly the type used by our GoK.

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How Community Feedback Shapes User Behavior
we.tl/t-h9NZdGYkPm

- “We find that negative feedback leads to significant behavioral changes that are detrimental to the community”

- down-voting (negative evaluations) can “cause users to post lower quality contents,” or worse comments… and are perceived by the community as such, hence “valued less by others…”

- down-voted victims are more likely to subsequently evaluate their fellow users negatively by down-voting others, “perpetuating a negative feedback loop… a vicious spiral of increasingly negative behavior that is exactly the opposite of the intended effect.”

------------------

Antisocial Behavior in Online Discussion Communities
we.tl/t-3mRYEhCCno

- “Studying the evolution of these users from the moment they join a community up to when they get banned, we find that not only do they write worse than other users over time, but they also become increasingly less tolerated by the community. Further, we discover that antisocial behavior is exacerbated when community feedback is overly harsh.”

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A few bad votes too many?: towards robust ranking in social media
we.tl/t-7jgWgbUTyR

- Susceptibility of down-vote abuse where increasingly, a “small fraction of malicious users are trying to game the system by selectively promoting or demoting content for profit, or fun.”

---------------------

Social Influence Bias A Randomized Experiment
we.tl/t-forItRx9wB

- Downsides of early down-voting by result in “snowball effect” of “irrational herding,” a “hive-mind” “mob mentality” of negative reinforcement.

----------------------

Anyone Can Become a Troll: Causes of Trolling Behavior in Online Discussions
we.tl/t-9e6z0eVR5T

- “ignoring bad behavior is an effective way of discouraging it, and one that social network sites might profitably explore. But at the same time, these sites will need a way to step in and actively prevent certain types of behavior when necessary.”... Permanent banning recommended, not negative reinforcing down-voting.

ASatiricalBloke (103 posts) • 0

To summarize the papers by Justin Cheng et. al., negative anti-social behavior preexists online voting systems; people bring in behavior problems from the outside as opposed to being created by the system; any negative feedback, not just in the form down votes will amplify negative preconditions.

So what is your solution? Getting rid of the down votes will not hinder negative feedback, only change the medium in which it is expressed, meaning more noisy posts.

In addition, the underline presumption is quite sinister if you think about it, you are talking about setting up a system with the intent of behavior modification, modifying behavior you deem inappropriate and antisocial. Using the reward/punishment model, if you take away the punishment, the only contrast you will have is between slight encouragement and over the top encouragement (non-feedback can be construed as a form of negative feedback). So in essence, you reward negative behavior with positive encouragement and positive behavior with over the top encouragement which over time losses its effectiveness and comes off as fake.

Furthermore, I would say behavior modification is the true danger of psychological censorship that you were so worried about, you are denied the freedom to form certain thoughts to begin with. At least with peer-pressure induced censorship, the individual has a choice to self-censor or not, where as what you propose, they have no such choice.

ASatiricalBloke (103 posts) • 0

One final thought, having all these research paper and yet, you did not, cannot answer two simple questions. Can you cite examples of where a newbie was discouraged from future posts because of down votes; Down voting aside, how would you address the issue of disruptive users without adding to the noise?

And by throwing the weight of five authoritative sounding research papers, name dropping included, you are engaging in a form bullying, trying to silence opposing views by rolling up your sleeves and showing your muscle.

You win, you've browbeaten me into submission, I yield, you are right, get rid of the down votes, long live the up votes. You have effectively censored me psychologically.

Moderators, please delete this account, I see the error of my ways and am not worthy of belonging in this community.

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