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Civilized Kunming

JanJal (1243 posts) • 0

Any day of the week is not same as 365 days a year until you die.

Many would also trade their NY housing for a secluded beach in SE Asia any day of the week, but few could pull it off permanently.

Dazzer (2813 posts) • -1

many people who live in huts around the world would trade it in for life in newyourk, they already do it

l4dybug (89 posts) • 0

Geezer, that report is nearly a decade old. I'm curious how environmental policy changes have bucked this trend, given the changing of guards in both China and the USA. The polar opposite role reversals of environmentally conscious Presidents of respective nations.

JanJal, it comes down to picking your poisons....

Incineration w/o sorting create microplastic compounds that evaporate into the sky, condense into clouds, and rain microplastic debris into oceans en route breaching ecosystem circulation. To say nothing of direct inhalation of toxic air.

Speaking of which, recent protests in Wuhan over landfill trash incinerator plants have actually panned out for 'NIMBY' (Not In My Backyard) locals.

Wuhan officials decided to stall proposed incineration, but also blamed HK protestors for setting bad examples for mainland citizens.

Civility in this context may be subjective to relativity, like time itself.

JanJal (1243 posts) • 0

@l4dybug: " it comes down to picking your poisons"

Indeed, but in most cases I'd pick eating and pooping microplastics over eating more heavy concentrations of antibiotics and hormones that would not be removed from circulation by incineration.

Not to mention the increase those cause in antibiotic resistant bacteria in environment.

Still, I think recycling is the right way, and this problem should be addressed by reducing the initial entry of such hazardous stuff into our environment. But if you want to feed a big population...

And in case it's not clear, I'm not talking about recycling obviously hazardous material like left-over medicine or medical waste from hospitals (for these there are safer methods than normal incineration), but the residues of such that exist in our food chain.

As for protests in mainland China about anything... well, I always first think of smoke and mirrors.

Geezer (1953 posts) • -2

@l4dybug Are you suggesting that since 2010 there has been a substantial change in US and China environmental behavior?

The 2010 info indicates that the US with twice the GDP, one fourth the population, of China contributes about one thirtieth as much plastic trash to the ocean. Are you suggesting this behavior has changed?

But then, horror of horrors, Trump withdrew the US from the Paris 'save the world' emissions hoax. This accord was primarily a plan to penalize developed nations while the two major polluters, India and China, had no requirement to clean up their acts and reduce emissions until 2030, or something. The US has in fact significantly lowered actual emissions exceeding the Paris goals while rejecting adherence to those goals.

My experience with Asia began more than 50 years ago before the use of plastic bottles began. Seems to me I first saw plastic bottles appear in Asia while I was still buying glass bottles in the US. I am not a fan of plastic bottles and was disappointed when they became in common use in the US.

It is my opinion of the polution issue is that it is driven by economics. Going clean, (I dislike the term ('green'), has higher short run or initial costs but the 'invisible hand' of Capitalism is, in efficiency and effectiveness, leading to the cleaner world we need.

Ishmael (462 posts) • 0

@Geezer, your final paragraph: In Kunming, doesn't it have something to do with Chinese laws restricting Chinese capitalism from polluting the environment? Would this be 'civilizing' the city?

JanJal (1243 posts) • -2

I think that Chinese generally consider more plastics as indication of both greater "civil" and greater "civilization".

I am not entirely sure if western countries ever had this phase.

Ishmael (462 posts) • -1

Jan Jal: mistaken downvote.
But it may simply be that they didn't because of the connotations of the words in English in western cultures and their imperfect equivalents in Chinese in Chinese culture. In the West there was the phase when it was all considered 'progress', which, in both cultures, has been associated with 'civilization' in modern times.
And I think it's worth it to split this hair before we ridicule the way 'wenming' and 'civilization' are currently being used in Chinese cultural propaganda slogans.
Not that I necessarily buy into any of it.

cloudtrapezer (756 posts) • -1

Janjal - not sure if Western countries ever went through this phase. Maybe you're too young to remember. Take a look at this article for a reminder.

www.theguardian.com/[...]

Peter99 (1246 posts) • -1

The great martyrs of humanity and freedom (of speech), are those who dare to criticise US while they living in China. This truly deserves a medal of courage. One cant but admire.

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