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Civilized Kunming

JanJal (1243 posts) • 0

Chinese people have easier access abroad now than even a decade ago, and they see things there.

They see how things are in countries far smaller than second biggest econonomy in the world, and want something simlar to show for their size of economy.

Ishmael (462 posts) • 0

I left Hong Kong and live in Kunming, I don't need any Hong Kong here, thanks. Hong Kong psychology is mostly about acquiring money. There are a lot of grim faces in Hong Kong, on the street, in business offices and at the checkout counter at 7-11.
@JanJal: I think you're right, but I doubt the civilized city campaign is simply a response to what ordinary Chinese who have gone abroad want to see in Kunming. Globalism with Chinese characteristics - guided from above. A hell of a lot about establishing and promoting national face. Not saying it's all bad, just that the guidance is not to be forgotten - and, ok, I guess this is obvious.

kurtosis (86 posts) • +3

There does seem to be quite a difference compared to the Tier definition (which I posted above).

Here's some information on the national civilized city program:
baike.baidu.com/[...]

They state that in order to be awarded the national civilized city status - the "highest civilized city status" - the following criteria are to be met:
- Reasonable, beautiful and practical public infrastructure such as trash cans, public buildings, sculptures, billboards etc. Clean streets, no messy posting. Parks, green spaces, atmosphere is peaceful.
- No littering, spitting, damaging flowers or trees, quarrels or fighting in public spaces. No smoking in indoor public places. Theaters, libraries, museums are quiet and civilized.
- Civilized traffic. Motor vehicles allow zebra crossing. Vehicles and pedestrians do not randomly cross roads, stick to traffic rules to avoid traffic jams, obey traffic police commands, cars don’t randomly stop to let people get out. No drunk driving.
- Let old or weak people sit on public transport. Treat outsiders friendly, patiently answer stranger’s questions. People try to help the old and weak.
- Public satisfaction on the administrative efficiency of the party and government organs > 90%. Satisfaction with anticorruption work >90% (and then a list with like 10 more such items, too lazy to translate). Oh, an interesting one: More than 50% volunteer to donate organs if they die.
- Public utilities (police, gas, electricity and so on) are civilized and there’s an effective complaint mechanism in places.

Ishmael (462 posts) • 0

Ok, all good, nothing wrong with any of that, call it 'civilized', though what would an uncivilized gas utility be like? Perhaps more interesting to think about what is not on the list.
Perhaps what we're all talking about has more to do with the, somehow odd, translation of wenming as 'civilized' and 'civilization', which are already somewhat ambiguous terms in English. Alternative might be based on some term like the often thrown around 'harmonious society', despite the obvious contradiction between the idea of social harmony and the reality of class society.

kurtosis (86 posts) • +2

I'm also curious how the party came up with that definition of civilized. Of course, messy traffic, spitting and offensive behavior are annoying. But there are much more obvious harmful uncivilized behaviors, especially regarding hygiene.

And does anyone know how this "wenming" rules are communicated? I mean, I had to search on the internet to know what the government means by Wenming. How is the street propaganda supposed to work when people don't know what the government means? You can't change traffic by just putting up a banner saying 文明开车你我他

Ishmael (462 posts) • +2

@kurtosis: I think the Party just made use of the popularity, in Chinese (well, Han, anyway) culture, of the old idea that Chinese culture was pretty much the same as civilization per se, and that social harmony was the essence of it - so that the slogan for ongoing Progress became the creation of a 'modern' 'harmonious society', which involved necessary niceties like cleanliness, politeness, respect for the elderly and cooperation, despite the underlying contradiction I've pointed out - obviously different from the things that were promoted during, say, the 'Cultural Revolution', which was not 'civilized' and was better left behind. And all with an eye on national 'face', which involved the adoption of certain concepts and practices that prevail (at least as concepts) in other powerful 'modern' societies.
But then history is such a mess, and cultural history involves a lot of hypocrisy.

cloudtrapezer (756 posts) • -2

Now that's what I call over-egging the pudding.

Haali (1178 posts) • -2

Kunming has no chance of passing all the requirements for 'highest civilised status' Kurtosis posted any time soon (if ever!).

napav (33 posts) • -1

Featured on CNN's front page, "Beijing bikini' is now considered uncivilized.

For those who haven't witnessed the Beijing bikini fashion in the summertime... it's when laobeijinger men, often beer-bellied, stroll down the street with their t-shirt or tanks rolled up above their tubby tummies.

"On Tuesday, authorities in Jinan -- a city of 8.7 million -- issued a notice ordering the public to keep their shirts on in public places. It came as temperatures rose to a sweltering 36C (96F) this week."

In May, "a man was fined around $7 for shopping shirtless in a supermarket." According to a Tianjin police.

Thanks to Spring City's cool 22 degrees average, we won't be seeing Kunming Bikini anytime this week.

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