www.eco-business.com/[...]

Predatory capitalism, predatory nationalism - predatory 'socialism', if you like, but anyway, predatory.
Two cheers for the reforestation of China.

Minus one. No, minus two cheers for the systematic rape of Myanmar. Result: 0 Cheers.

Wow, a whole 1.6 percent in the 3rd or 4th largest country in the world. Ought to be looking like Ireland in no time. Of course sucks for all China's neighbors who are being cut off from waters from the Mekong River and now China can save its own tress by having them cut down their own. I'll wager they even send their own workers to those places to go the logging rather than hire needy locals, the way they deprive locals in Africa and the Middle East of jobs by bringing in Chinese workers. Yea, whoo hoo, go China.

@Zhudan

When was the last time you saw a Saudi tarmac a road? It wouldn't happen in a million years. Surely the amount of Indians, Flippers and Bangladeshis in Yeman, Oman, Saudi etc is proof that unskilled work is not for locals.

In Africa (I can only speak for Angola and Zimbabwe here) Chinese have to fulfill a quota of locals that must be employed. They are not employed on salaries exceeding a Chinese worker, let's not suggest that the Chinese are undercutting them. The aim of a project in Africa is to build in a certain time frame, then the government realise that training up locals isn't going to reach that goal.

I have never encountered much annamosity towards China in Africa. The locals see them building roads, linking villages, making dams etc. That's the benefit to the local in Africa, being able to go from A to B in 2 hours instead of 2 days, having irrigation for his crops. The fact he isn't building a road or dam will not even cross your average rural Africans mind.

@nap

I understand what you are saying overall though there are problems and conflicts in Africa between the Chinese and love calls. I have known Chinese people who have gone there and worked and said they loved it. I was happy to hear it really. There is even a degree of intermarriage now between Chinese and Africans and that is cool too. Sadly I have also read of restaurants in places like Kenya posting signs that Africans are not allowed inside to eat. They are nonplussed when authorities come to investigate and claim they are just trying to keep out terrorists. I guess it is a mixed bag of blessings and curses.

metro.co.uk/[...]

That is the restaurant story link. It is not actually an isolated case though this story got more news. I think it is horrible myself. There are in fact several stories online too of local people not happy at all with the deal they are getting ( or not getting) from the Chinese presence there. So I do not think am too swayed.

@zhudan
Sorry to break the news to you.

Napoleon is not really from Africa. for some reason he's pretending to be, so he doesn't know crap about it. He was probably born there and moved when he was at the age of 6 month or whatnot, moved to the U.S. or so.

I know Chinese who go to Africa for work and business and yeah there are a lot of tensions. Because, Africans [who can blame them] don't like to be exploited after only a little less of a 1000 years of exploitation.

@Napoleon
"In Africa (I can only speak for Angola and Zimbabwe here) ...."
Really? Can you?

"I have never encountered much annamosity towards China in Africa. "
...Really? I thought you were from Africa? They love Chinese so much, for taking away their jobs and loving black folks. They have such a great time together. Woohoow, what a party!!!

"The locals see them building roads, linking villages, making dams etc. That's the benefit to the local in Africa, being able to go from A to B in 2 hours instead of 2 days, having irrigation for his crops."
...Right! So all Africans [all of course still wearing, nothing but a leaf, and all tribal dancing to work, [Africa has no Universities, or trained or skilled worker, at all]. So they see a strange Asian fella, drinking Wanglaoji, and think: "Oh my god, progress.- the gods must have sent you, to build wells, and roads.

Plus have you been to Africa lately, 2 hours vs. 2 days, so you left Africa in the 80's, huh?

The fact he isn't building a road or dam will not even cross your average rural Africans mind.
...Right!

Dude, could you be farther away from the truth and could you be more condecending, by producing the stereotypical picture of an African . As an almost African, you should know that not all Africans are 'Bushmen", right?

Look it's one thing to pretend to be someone else but even at some point, you have to face the facts.

Promoting and enforcing something that is not there, I think it's a little dangereous.

To be on topic. China has bought into mines, crops, oil and water projects [and more] and they can even go wilder and crazier than they can get home, in terms of exploitation and polluting. As they have in other Asian states. Africa brings them a chance to work on a whole different [worse] level.

That means, not all do. Some Chinese companies have vouched to do better but the majority is still running with $-bills on their flags, to bring 'progress' to Africa.

There are companies that sell recycled paper on taobao. There are programs that offer bamboo made fibers for furniture and other traditionally wood-made stuff. But the problem is the lack of awareness.

Who wants to buy recycled paper for 5mao more. If you can buy a cheaper one, that exploits some region on the planet.
China although loving to point the fingers at other countries for historical mistakes, loves to act them out themselves. So China will need a good old environmental 80's, with dying rivers, air pollution and a popping nuclear ractor here or there.

OOoooops! Nah why learn?

Well, as Chinese are good at copying,faking and cloning, I hope they make copy/clone or make realisticly looking fake wood.

@Dudeson

Dear me. Just reply no matter what your point eh?

Yes. I'd like to say I understand this situation more than most on this forum with 43 years (on and off) of Africa under my belt.

You seem to have once again thought that Africa works on German standards. Africa is no victim here.

I have only ever seen Chinese non-skilled workers on road crews and on building sites in Africa, anything else local people are used as a standard in the non skilled positions. If you have seen different please, say so.

For a European to talk about Chinese ethics in Africa astounds me. I have yet to see the Chinese cleanse a landscape of local Africans (Germans - San Bushmen), to chop off limbs if locals don't chop down enough rubber (Belgians - Congo), to set up a state founded on the principals of slavery laws outlawed at home (America - Liberia).

The reason for Chinese workers in some industries in Zimbabwe is that people who can lay a road are in SA making more money than they would at home. I have rarely seen a Chinese crew in an African city apart from Nairobi, as laying a road in a city centre and laying a road in from one rural village to another is another skill entirely. Zimbabwe used to have the Brits, at a stretch the Porks for guidance, but nothing much in the last 40 years. Now things are different - a Brit or French company cost an arm and a leg, and guess what? They'll still use foreigners. So there is a list of things that need doing and the Chinese are willing to do them quickly and cheaply. Form over substance in Africa.

Chinese firms, and their workers, for the large part (I'm sure there are exceptions) follow the regulations set by the government. They must recruit a certain amount of local people.

In the North of Africa it's a different matter entirely. The government wants foreign workers, before it was the Turks and now it's the Chinese.

I'm sure it's hard for a European to believe, but at the moment Africans can't get enough Chinese crap. It's allowing people to replace 20 year old buckets with new crappy Chinese one's, have a few pairs of Chinese crappy sandals etc.

It's unreasonable to expect Africa not to want to develop. It is experiencing the largest population growth in it's history. There is a need for more roads, power plants, buildings etc. There is money to be made. Or should we all live in darkness and poverty to make a German feel better?

I stand by my Chinese animosity statement. If you came to Harare for a week you'd be lucky to see 10-15 Chinese around town. You might get a few off the cuff comments in Borrowdale. In fact, a Chinese is much more likely to encounter animosity on the basis of being mistaken for a Korean, especially around Bulawayo way, given recent events. And here's the thing. A Chinese guy could probably walk into a few clubs, that me, as a mzungu, couldn't.

You're also forgetting (likeliness is that you don't know) that China gave arms and support to people like FRELIMO in Mozambique, MPLA in Angola and Mugabe in the Bush War. In Africa time is slow and those things don't get forgotten. China won hearts and minds in the seventies and eighties.

;-/ yes nice to see great leaders like mugabe treated so well and supported as examples kof great leadership and lauded in media here

The typos we makes on mobile devices are the best. I meant conflicts between Chinese and locals but it came out as between Chinese and love calls. Like a problem with Kenyan call girls or something. Probably in that dept things are running smoothly.m