Cesareans cost over 100K-200K (depending on packages), where as vaginal natural births are around 60K-80K.
Keep in mind, Angel's visiting obstetricians are plucked from larger university hospitals in town, which will be much cheaper.
But you pay for that nice, clean environment and attentive service with more privacy.
Hospitals in KM aren't good. If you can give birth in HK or Thailand, that will probably be better. Angel looks fancy, but as viyida said, it's the same doctors as the other hospitals with the same
backwards attitudes to childbirth and pain relief.
@Haali They seemed quite forward thinking when my son was born there Four years ago. Plus their aftercare with the regular checkups, vaccinations etc over the next couple of years was also very good.
Definitely wouldn't say backwards.
If I recall correctly, Angel Hospitals made some news a few years ago with some other issues that I can't remember, but what came out of it was that they were a part of a large private enterprise through China, and just a money making machine.
I also remember that when we were in Chengdu there was a lot of comments regarding them, and it wasn't positive.
We ultimately found another private hospital and it was very good, similar to the states, and it cost about 25000 rmb.
Private room for a few days, food,
all that stuff included.
Also had a child in a public hospital, was a bit scary because of a particular situation, and kinda crappy due to the crowding and other issues, but it worked, and obviously works in china, but I would prefer a non public place, IMO.
We did TWO natural deliveries at two local hospitals. Cost was under ¥10k per baby plus post-natal follow-ups, immunizations, etc,
- but if you're unfamiliar with local Chinese hospitals - it'll be a rather large shock for westerners and definitely not recommended if you don't have conversational chinese skills.
Family members (specifically the husband, but in-laws or relatives will work) are expected to sleep (folding reclining chair does the trick) in the multi-bed room and provide egg broth vitamin soup, feed the newborn every 3 hours (best experience in the world is the first time your new baby drinks formula or breast milk), wash cooking & eating utensils, bring changes of pajamas, and generally pamper and spoil both the mother and newborn child for a week (longer for c-sections).
Chatting with cell mates (if you can communicate), maybe making new friends, networking, camaraderie, providing advice to new parents, listening to advice from veterans, etc.
You can also pay the janitor ladies to help you buy food etc. They usually love the extra income.
Chinese maternity specialty hospitals deliver hundreds of babies a week if not more. The only pain is the crowding and perhaps the hygiene (squat toilets) - but these places are definitely industrialized baby delivery and after-care machines.
My favorite hospital of all is the TCM hospital because the TCM medications are quite literally a fraction of the cost of western meds.
Worst - you have cell mates or relatives that love to do the Kunming hack (smoker's cough thing)...that's pretty gross.
Money is very important to them, they are used to uninformed patients..
You'll do ok..
michael2015, you've delved quite in-depth on this topic thread. Enjoyable memoir. You should contribute an official "How to..." survive and thrive as new dad in Kunming. A paternal guide for expats. ;)
Haali wrote: "Angel looks fancy, but as viyida said, it's the same doctors as the other hospitals..."
To be fair, public University hospitals are training grounds for residents straight out of medical schools. Even fellows or attendings making their rounds are light under their belts compared to senior-level physicians on team rosters of expensive, private maternity hospitals such as Angel.
Angel also recruits active or former chief physicians from their respective obgyn departments. Head physicians are more prepared to handle the unforeseen 1% childbirth complications. Angel pays these sought after veterans high remuneration. These exorbitant costs are naturally passed on to patients and added to the bill.
So unlike overcrowded public hospitals, Angel's patients receive more personal attention from qualified and experienced physicians.
Besides overpriced drugs and superfluous tests peddled by Angel's medical consultants, Privilege is essentially what their deeper pocketed clientele willingly splurge on. That, and the luxury boutique hotel atmosphere & service. All of which elevates the entire birthing "experience" to regal pampering. Not to mention more comfort for the family and extended family members.
Kunming healthcare has changed since our experiences. Outpatient pharmacies have allegedly been separated from hospitals - to curtail that abusive practice.
As for the "How to..." - I think that's more the regime of the Gokm editorial and reporting staff...
Thanks much for the info on Angel.
As for the teaching hospitals - I saw that as a bonus as the senior physicians and department heads have to remain professional and competitive (theoretically).
When we were contemplating a maternity hospital - we'd considered the higher priced expat friendly brands - but we went for hospitals with high maternity throughputs instead. The theory was they'd seen significantly more cases than the lower throughput expat hospitals - and would then theoretically respond faster to complications, based on experience.
My wife had the usual complications that come with natural delivery and the post delivery treatment (suturing tears, etc) were immediate and professional, along with the 24-48 hour post-delivery watch and the constant but non-invasive monitoring by the nursing staff.
These high throughput hospitals generally run like super machines - which is what we wanted and weren't disappointed.
As my wife is native Chinese - we didn't have the language barrier so this route only works well, if you have a native speaker present and on-call.
First childbirth is always the most terrifying because of the unknowns. Childbirth in a foreign country where you can't effectively communicate - that's got to be truly terrifying.
If you have the money, do it in ChangMai.
We had two natural deliveries at Calmete International. Overall assessment:
1. Cheap: we paid 3,200 yuan for the first and 2,800 yuan for the second;
2. Professional, kind and helpful staff;
3. They could speak some English - though my wife and I are both fluent in Mandarin;
4. Clean and fine ambient;
5. Not crowded.
Therefore, I truly recommend this Hospital for deliveries.
I'm aware there are lots of myths among expats, like: "you must go to Thailand" if you're going to have a baby; or "never get immunizations in China", and so on and so forth. There is some truth in those myths, I mean, there are reasons to think like that, but if you be wise enough to be around in China, you certainly may find your ways to the best spots to enjoy China and have the best services with reasonable prices and good quality.
As for immunizations, most of those done in China are imported form Europe and the Chinese ones from past scandals were either shut down or fined and are now scrutinized.
In my opinion, there is no need to fly somewhere nor pay 20,000 yuan and up to services at places like Angel Hospital. After all, their services are the same and even more limited than the public hospitals like Calmete in Kunming.
Hope it may add to the discussion.
On topic of compulsory immunizations, we were offered choice between imported foreign vaccines, or government sponsored domestic vaccines.
Beside price difference, the domestic vaccines would have come with many times more shots over 2 year period than the foreign ones, and that was our main reason to choose imported.
This week we were going to get an optional flu shot for the kid, but our hospital was out of the vaccine - and it's not the first time we've turned back empty handed.
I think this availability of vaccines, especially foreign ones, may balance out any remaining safety concerns.