When I said that it was safer here than in New York I was talking from being born and raised there. Not from a point of view of a tourist. Having been living here over 2 years yes I can say with certainty that IT IS SAFER HERE as of this point for ME. :-). It wasn't some half-ass comment I made. ;-). It's a fact.

it was an attack against foreigners in kunming, done by a local who obviously wants you out and do not like you/us much. wonder if there are more like that..

I disagree with anyone who says that hateful or threatening posts should not be deleted. This is not a public space, this is a privately run website and posters have no free speech rights whatsoever. Removing posts is the administrator's prerogative, and if you don't like the standards that are upheld, find another forum. If someone were to post spam, or imbed unwanted images in their posts, it would be reasonable to remove them. Likewise, the moderators of this thread can remove any posts whose content they find inappropriate. If you want to know what standards this website employs in deciding to remove posts, then ask.

I think you'll find that they are aimed at fostering civil discussion and not suppressing alternative viewpoints. So if you want to complain, or wax philosophic about free speech, go ahead, but if you want to post racist jokes, stories about your sex life, descriptions of your bowel movements, or hate speech directed at religious or ethnic group, don't expect your post to remain.

I don't think any of us are pro-censorship.
My main point in this situation is.
If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.
Lets bring the peace.
Sending some Pura Vida to everyone out there.
Happy New Year

I've been following these comments rather closely as the attack happened just a few days before I went home for the holidays, and I feel a bit cut off.

I read the comments that were removed and they contained profanity, threats and overall very negative and insulting stuff. If those people had dissenting political views that were expressed in rational, respectful terms, then I would have been against removing them. But the vitriol contained in them threatened to drag the entire forum down into an increasingly ugly flame war. I think their deletion was a good idea.

@ Dre,

Although I am living in Shenyang, I find this news quite disturbing. I am a frequenter of western bars. I am appalled that people would lower themselves to removing comments, and then continue this to the point of attacking those who do direct you attention to the realities of the situation.

I had a meal at Salvador's, and found the place lovely. I extend my best wishes to you all. I am positive that the owners would be enlightened enough not to condone censorship.

Well that's one thing we can agree on.
World Peace

OK Dre calm down. I understand that you are the brother of one of the Salvador's Cafe boys. I know it's not an easy time.
My point was this- it's all very well saying that some people's comments are unacceptable to you but censoring them or banishing them to a forum that you don't read doesn't mean they don't exist.

Also it's not your place to decide who's comments are acceptable or not- even if they are extreme like the idiot who posted the rubbish that we are talking about. If you don't agree with him/her then tell them. If you stop people like that from speaking then they have to resort to other methods of communication. Don't attack me because I tell you that Santa Claus doesn't exist.

(I didn't get what I wanted for Christmas but perhaps asking for world peace was too much for the Elves to produce overnight. I'll ask again next year.)

@ Dre:

I understand your frustration, and for the most part, agree with you. However, I don't think comments should be strictly limited to information about the incident, because I don't think we as readers will be able to come up with anything more than what's already been said, and I think there's a need among people in the community to come to terms with the incident emotionally.
Having said that, I think that it was right for the editors to delete bigoted or threatening posts, because those aren't helping anybody.

@ the ether:
There is anti-foreign sentiment out there, and while some of that might be the result of drunken antics or bad behavior in the community, a lot of it is linked to international political incidents or other things beyond our control. Regardless of the source, none of that makes the bombing our fault. I strive to be respectful of others in all of my affairs, and I push my friends to do the same, not to avoid becoming the target of an attack, but because that is how I was raised.

A lot of us, myself included, have an instinctive urge to respond angrily to negative posts or insinuations that we are all a bunch of jackasses who deserve it. Let's all try to keep cool heads when dealing with this stuff. Perhaps we might be able to change a few minds in the process.

hey Chris and other folks who can read Chinese, check out that one:
news.qq.com/a/20081228/000116.htm
apparently the police came to a conclusion, the guy was according to this report the bus bomber as well and hated society. apparently he wanted to bomb some busses again but this is not confirmed yet. so he wasn't aiming at salvador's.
no clue wether it's true or not but we might not get a better answer anyways.

Ok youcantakemylegs,
I dont know why you are soo angry. Did you not get what you wanted for christmas? Generally in a blog like this one, concerning a tragedy, the idea is to cover the actual happenings of an incident. I dont think it should be used to express hatred or racism. If gokunming.com is supposed to be used to educate people in a real fasion, why is it OK for someone to rant on about how they hate one person or another. If someone has something real to say, that they can back up then thats one thing, but to post a 1 or 2 sentence comment that is not relavant and just expresses hatred towards one group or another I think its unacceptable. They can goto another website to express there hatred where someone might give a shit. This blog is to support our friends and family at Salvadors and trying to get real information to those who care. Of course there is resentment to foreigners in every country. I live in a foreign country and I have my battles, but the locals who really know me, respect me. If you are not getting that respect, thats because you are not treating others as you would like to be treated. Humans are born as kind people, its what they pick up along the way that makes them what they are today, good or bad. In closing, if you have real information or ideas on how to work through this please post it, if not go take a walk.

It's all very well everyone saying how much safer they feel over in Kunming than Anywhere USA but if you come to this conclusion after deleting all the death threats you're sent then it kind of rings a bit hollow. "One day every foreigner in China will be killed" or some horrible thing like that!? The Chinese media is obviously not to be entirely trusted but if you censor the comments left on your blog and only print those you like the sound of then you're not helping yourself. (I'm against sensationalism and fight the global media plot to keep us all terrified and locked in our homes by going out there and getting on with my life. Hopefully this crazy guy just made a stupid mistake with his bomb and was just having a coffee at Salvador's before going off and blowing up the local Communist Party Headquarters.) But it seems unlikely.
True- the bus bombings obviously weren't intended to target whiteys but I'm not sure if I'm convinced that these two incidents are connected.
There IS resentment of foreigners in China. Just as minority groups are disliked to a greater or lesser degree anywhere in the world.

Pretending everyone loves you doesn't make it so.

Why, even when we are married to Chinese people, set up businesses here, pay taxes and send our children to school here are we still only describing ourselves as "guests". Some of us are first or second generation immigrants. -Mostly from countries with huge immigrant populations of our own- populations we would be ashamed to treat in the same manner as the Chinese treat us.

If there are people out there who hate us then we should publish their hateful nonsense and be aware of who they are. You felt less safe in New York because you read in the papers about all the crazy people.

Go out, eat at Salvador's and don't change your lifestyle because of some nutcase but don't pretend that everything is sunshine and light.
Print all your comments Chris!
Freedom of speech is there for the people who say things you don't like the sound of too,....not just your customers.

I typed something really long, my hands hurt from it, and it didn't show up here.
Did I not do something? Or did something wrong?

Ah, hope it's just a glitch and it shows up soon.

I think that when a sick mind is bend on creating hell for people they will. I think the best thing to do is to keep on doing what you did before but just be more watchful of your surroundings without being paranoid. There are many laowais that set a bad example for those of us who are respectful to being a guest in a foreign country. Personally, I feel alot safer here in China then in the USA. Just my 2 cents.

Thank you, kmman, for the Reuters story.

I'm the mom of one of the co-owners, and I happen to work at a small daily paper in the U.S. I got in touch with our state AP office, which forwarded my email to the AP bureau in Beijing. That office is headed by someone from my (and my son's former) state.

Very odd that AP hadn't picked it up, other than it being Christmas and a lot of people are on vacation, etc.